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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 23, 2016, 05:02pm
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Batting out of order

R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. Wrong batter hits a single. R1 scores, R2 on 2nd, BR on 1st. Before next pitch, it's discovered that BR is wrong.

7.2.D.2b EFFECT (a) The player who should have batted is out. (Got it!)
7.2.D.2b EFFECT (b) Any advance of runners and any run scored shall be nullified. All outs made stand. (If everything is nullified, what happens to R1, R2, and the wrong BR? Is the entire play cancelled, everyone goes back to their original base, the right batter is out, and the next batter bats?)
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Old Mon May 23, 2016, 06:05pm
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The "advance" is nullified.

Runners go back.
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Old Mon May 23, 2016, 06:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerfield9 View Post
R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. Wrong batter hits a single. R1 scores, R2 on 2nd, BR on 1st. Before next pitch, it's discovered that BR is wrong.

7.2.D.2b EFFECT (a) The player who should have batted is out. (Got it!)
7.2.D.2b EFFECT (b) Any advance of runners and any run scored shall be nullified. All outs made stand. (If everything is nullified, what happens to R1, R2, and the wrong BR? Is the entire play cancelled, everyone goes back to their original base, the right batter is out, and the next batter bats?)
Not everything is nullified. As noted, if there were any outs executed during the play, other than the improper batter, those outs remain in the book
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Old Mon May 23, 2016, 07:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerfield9 View Post
R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. Wrong batter hits a single. R1 scores, R2 on 2nd, BR on 1st. Before next pitch, it's discovered that BR is wrong.

7.2.D.2b EFFECT (a) The player who should have batted is out. (Got it!)
7.2.D.2b EFFECT (b) Any advance of runners and any run scored shall be nullified. All outs made stand. (If everything is nullified, what happens to R1, R2, and the wrong BR? Is the entire play cancelled, everyone goes back to their original base, the right batter is out, and the next batter bats?)
R1 & R2 return to TOP bases. The wrong batter at bat is negated (never happened); then as you said "the right batter is out, and the next batter bats". Next batter being the one who would follow the missed batter.
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Old Mon May 23, 2016, 08:18pm
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If memory serves me, Fed would not count the improper batters out(if she did indeed get an out). There's a casebook play but I don't have that book in front of me.
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Old Mon May 23, 2016, 09:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Jimmy View Post
If memory serves me, Fed would not count the improper batters out(if she did indeed get an out). There's a casebook play but I don't have that book in front of me.
All rule sets are now the same on this, all outs made stand except any outs made on the improper batter.
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Old Tue May 24, 2016, 07:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
All rule sets are now the same on this, all outs made stand except any outs made on the improper batter.
NFHS and ASA now are the same on this. NCAA is different, as the only out is the batter who should have batted (outs on the play are nullified).

Rule 11.10

Quote:
If the error is reported after the incorrect batter has completed her turn at bat . . . (a) the player who should have batted is out; (b) all results because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base as a result of obstruction, an error, a hit batter, walk, dropped third strike or a base hit shall be nullified;
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Old Tue May 24, 2016, 07:57am
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Originally Posted by Big Slick View Post
NFHS and ASA now are the same on this. NCAA is different, as the only out is the batter who should have batted (outs on the play are nullified).

Rule 11.10
One more rule where NCAA has moved further and further away from every other softball rule set. All kinds of instances where it would be a disadvantage for the defense to appeal a batting out of order. Incorrect batter hits into a double play not involving the batter. If defense appeals the batting out of order, instead of 2 outs and 2 less base runners they only get 1 out and put 2 runners back on base.

That rule actually makes it an enticing proposition for the offense to purposely bat out of order because there is no real penalty for it other than just a single out. The defensive coach would be forced to choose between taking just the single out and correcting the batting order, or, not appealing and allowing the offense to reset the batting order.
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Old Tue May 24, 2016, 08:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
One more rule where NCAA has moved further and further away from every other softball rule set. All kinds of instances where it would be a disadvantage for the defense to appeal a batting out of order. Incorrect batter hits into a double play not involving the batter. If defense appeals the batting out of order, instead of 2 outs and 2 less base runners they only get 1 out and put 2 runners back on base.

That rule actually makes it an enticing proposition for the offense to purposely bat out of order because there is no real penalty for it other than just a single out. The defensive coach would be forced to choose between taking just the single out and correcting the batting order, or, not appealing and allowing the offense to reset the batting order.
You are correct in your analysis. Hitting into a double play does give the defense a choice.

I had a coach tell me this year that she will purposely bat out of order a few times a year. I'm not sure if she was joking, but she did seem like she was serious.

Like anything else in NCAA, it will be changed when someone with a little stroke is disadvantaged.
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Old Tue May 24, 2016, 12:11pm
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IMO, ASA had it right and screwed it up. The BOO should, without question, carry a penalty.

In addition, if the defense retires anyone, including the wrong batter, those are outs earned and should not be negated to the advantage of the offending team.

You know, for an organization who for more than a half a century was the leader in the game of softball worldwide, they sure have been doing a lot of following in the last decade or so.
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Old Tue May 24, 2016, 12:54pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
IMO, ASA had it right and screwed it up. The BOO should, without question, carry a penalty.

In addition, if the defense retires anyone, including the wrong batter, those are outs earned and should not be negated to the advantage of the offending team.

You know, for an organization who for more than a half a century was the leader in the game of softball worldwide, they sure have been doing a lot of following in the last decade or so.

I agree, the defense earned every out they made on the field and then there was an additional penalty for the batting out of order. The NCAA rule is really no penalty at all, why not skip over your worst batter and try to reset the batting order. Worst case the it is just a single out which more than likely would have happened anyway since it was their worst batter they are attempting to skip over in the first place.
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Old Fri Jun 17, 2016, 01:23am
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread

Clarification. ASA 10U

No outs
Angie is on 3rd
Betty is on 1st
Claire is due up but Dianne bats instead.
Dianne strikes out.

Coach appeals BOO

Claire is out
Dianne is up.
1 out, correct?
They don't get both outs correct?

I had to protest a game tonight to get this straight, and I think we finally did.
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Old Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:37am
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You are correct, sir!

ASA changed their rule (2 years ago?) to negate the improper batter's at-bat, aligning themselves with other organizations. Prior to that, they would have enforced the out made by the improper batter.

Not anymore!
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Old Fri Jun 17, 2016, 04:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
One more rule where NCAA has moved further and further away from every other softball rule set. All kinds of instances where it would be a disadvantage for the defense to appeal a batting out of order. Incorrect batter hits into a double play not involving the batter. If defense appeals the batting out of order, instead of 2 outs and 2 less base runners they only get 1 out and put 2 runners back on base.

That rule actually makes it an enticing proposition for the offense to purposely bat out of order because there is no real penalty for it other than just a single out. The defensive coach would be forced to choose between taking just the single out and correcting the batting order, or, not appealing and allowing the offense to reset the batting order.
Honestly, the NCAA version makes the most sense...

Either you take the play, or you take the penalty.
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Old Fri Jun 17, 2016, 06:37pm
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Don't see how the NCAA rule makes any sense at all. There is essentially no penalty so it just invites the coach purposely bat out of order. Makes it way too easy to purposely reeset the batting order.
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