NFHS "ball four" mechanic

[chapmaja]

I have always been instructed to indicate ball 4 verbally if the batter doesn't react, then take the mask off and watcher her down the line to first base, unless there is other action requiring your attention (such as a runner coming home on a passed ball/WP for ball 4).

This does bring up an interesting situation.

R1 on 3rd, B2 has a 3-2 count. Pitch is a wild pitch over the catchers head for ball 4. The batter turns throws the bat toward her dugout, and starts going to first base at the same time the pitcher is covering the plate for R1 coming home. R1, B2, F1 and the throw all reach the plate about the same time. What do you have?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I have always been instructed to indicate ball 4 verbally if the batter doesn't react, then take the mask off and watcher her down the line to first base, unless there is other action requiring your attention (such as a runner coming home on a passed ball/WP for ball 4).

This does bring up an interesting situation.

R1 on 3rd, B2 has a 3-2 count. Pitch is a wild pitch over the catchers head for ball 4. The batter turns throws the bat toward her dugout, and starts going to first base at the same time the pitcher is covering the plate for R1 coming home. R1, B2, F1 and the throw all reach the plate about the same time. What do you have?

Just do what's fair.

[CecilOne]

Count - second strike, third ball, after a delay, when I perceive confusion, when asked (minimal me aspect in game).
Used to after third pitch, especially slow pitch, but if not strike 2 or ball 3, count is 2 and 1

Ball four - "ball", mask in left hand facing BR & 1st base, pause, "ball four" if no reaction, watch any 3rd base runner.
HBP - "dead ball", if not obvious - point & announce "hit batter"; check runners, then same as ball four

Never point to 1st or give instructions.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Count - second strike, third ball, after a delay, when I perceive confusion, when asked (minimal me aspect in game).
Used to after third pitch, especially slow pitch, but if not strike 2 or ball 3, count is 2 and 1

Ball four - "ball", mask in left hand facing BR & 1st base, pause, "ball four" if no reaction, watch any 3rd base runner.
HBP - "dead ball", if not obvious - point & announce "hit batter"; check runners, then same as ball four

Never point to 1st or give instructions.

The problem with that (old and never revised) instruction is that the game has changed with rules related to HBP that require different judgment. Used to be the only judgments were 1) hit or not, and 2) sufficient attempt to avoid or not?

Now we have to judge if the ball was completely in the batters box (where no attempt to avoid is necessary), or only partially in the batters box (where failure to attempt to avoid still applies). So batters and coaches can legitimately not know if they are awarded first base or not.

Sure, the smarter ones hop up and go to first and make you call them back. But this is an NFHS thread, and there generally aren't all that many smarter players.

I believe the better mechanic (on HBP only) is to point and award first base when appropriate, or immediately after declaring dead ball state "stay here" when not awarding first base; that makes it clear that you are making an affirmative judgment and what your judgment is, without leaving it appear like the coach needs to come out and prompt you to consider the alternate possibility.

It just isn't in the NFHS manual (has that been updated in decades??), like the NCAA updated when their rule changed. Just my opinion, no correction as to the manual direction.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The problem with that (old and never revised) instruction is that the game has changed with rules related to HBP that require different judgment. Used to be the only judgments were 1) hit or not, and 2) sufficient attempt to avoid or not?

Now we have to judge if the ball was completely in the batters box (where no attempt to avoid is necessary), or only partially in the batters box (where failure to attempt to avoid still applies). So batters and coaches can legitimately not know if they are awarded first base or not.

Sure, the smarter ones hop up and go to first and make you call them back. But this is an NFHS thread, and there generally aren't all that many smarter players.

I believe the better mechanic (on HBP only) is to point and award first base when appropriate, or immediately after declaring dead ball state "stay here" when not awarding first base; that makes it clear that you are making an affirmative judgment and what your judgment is, without leaving it appear like the coach needs to come out and prompt you to consider the alternate possibility.

It just isn't in the NFHS manual (has that been updated in decades??), like the NCAA updated when their rule changed. Just my opinion, no correction as to the manual direction.

Yes, I over simplified and ignored the "stay here" possibility.
I still wouldn't point, just "first base" or "you get first base" to the BR.

[charliej47]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The problem with that (old and never revised) instruction is that the game has changed with rules related to HBP that require different judgment. Used to be the only judgments were 1) hit or not, and 2) sufficient attempt to avoid or not?

Now we have to judge if the ball was completely in the batters box (where no attempt to avoid is necessary), or only partially in the batters box (where failure to attempt to avoid still applies). So batters and coaches can legitimately not know if they are awarded first base or not.

Sure, the smarter ones hop up and go to first and make you call them back. But this is an NFHS thread, and there generally aren't all that many smarter players.

I believe the better mechanic (on HBP only) is to point and award first base when appropriate, or immediately after declaring dead ball state "stay here" when not awarding first base; that makes it clear that you are making an affirmative judgment and what your judgment is, without leaving it appear like the coach needs to come out and prompt you to consider the alternate possibility.

It just isn't in the NFHS manual (has that been updated in decades??), like the NCAA updated when their rule changed. Just my opinion, no correction as to the manual direction.

At one of the state (Ohio) meetings, we were told to use this mechanic when the batter is to stay.