Runner pulls on catcher's glove during slide

[teebob21]

Situation: R1 on 2B. Batter-runner hits a single to centerfield. R1 rounds 3B and comes home. The throw to F2 is in plenty of time. F2 establishes a legal position in possession of the ball in the baseline between HP and 3B, inside the RH batter's box. R1 slides to the foul side of the baseline, feet first. The tag is made on the torso, but as F2 raises the glove off of R1's body, R1's arms contact the glove. R1 pulls on the glove as her momentum carries her past F2, where she touches HP. The ball comes out. BR advances to 2B when she sees the dropped ball.

What's the correct call? Who, if anyone, is out? Does the ball remain live?

Ruleset: NCAA and/or ASA

[RKBUmp]

Did the runner physically grab the glove and pull on it, or was it just part of the slide with the catchers glove getting tangled up in the runners arms and the ball coming out?

[BlueDevilRef]

One of those times you must judge intent.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Did the runner physically grab the glove and pull on it, or was it just part of the slide with the catchers glove getting tangled up in the runners arms and the ball coming out?

From what I saw, the runner held on to the glove and pulled it with her as she slid past.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by teebob21

From what I saw, the runner held on to the glove and pulled it with her as she slid past.

Then that is an act of interference. Did the interference happen after she scored?

EDIT: Wait... I'm not sure I understand the timing of all of this. Was the tag applied before she scored, so she was out on the tag and then she interfered and caused the ball to come out and then she touched home?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Was the tag applied before she scored, so she was out on the tag and then she interfered and caused the ball to come out and then she touched home?

This is the correct order of events as I saw it. This all happens in the half-second it takes to slide home. The pull on the glove was short, reminiscent of an infamous Alex Rodriguez play some years back.
EDIT to add: I really wish I had a video of the play to share, as just writing/talking about this play does not do justice to the speed of the game.

[jmkupka]

Looks like runner closest to home is out as well...

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Looks like runner closest to home is out as well...

As described, sounds like could judge F2 had control of ball in glove and made a proper legal tag on R1s torso prior to R1 touching home. R1 out.

Now R1 continues sliding by and F2s glove comes off R1s torso and R1 grabs F2s glove briefly causing the ball to come out. Not going to negate the out if judged that F2 already had control when applying the tag. Next decision is did the action of retired R1 interfere with defense making another play? Only then can you get another out on this IMO.

[RKBUmp]

Asa requires the fielder to demonstrate control of the ball throughout the tag. Simply having control when the tag is initially applied is not an out if the fielder does not keep control of the ball.

Now, if the runner intentionally grabbed the glove causing the ball to come out that is a different story.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Asa requires the fielder to demonstrate control of the ball throughout the tag. Simply having control when the tag is initially applied is not an out if the fielder does not keep control of the ball.

Now, if the runner intentionally grabbed the glove causing the ball to come out that is a different story.

When does "throughout the tag" end? If she had ball securely before and after taking the runner on the mid torso, then after the tag has come off the runners torso contact by the runner hand causes the ball to come out I still have a tag and an out. Maybe INT by retired runner if there was another play to be made which R1 took away.

But I agree if cannot determine that F2 controlled the ball throughout the tag and the action of F2 tugging at the glove is what caused control to be lossed then the tag is no good but the runner has interfered prior to scoring so dead ball she is out return other runners to last base reached time of interference.

[RKBUmp]

The clarification does not define what through the tag is, but if the fielder still has the glove on the runner I would say they are still in the process of applying the tag. Until they pull the ball away demonstrating control of the ball, they have not completed the process of the tag.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Situation: R1 on 2B. Batter-runner hits a single to centerfield. R1 rounds 3B and comes home. The throw to F2 is in plenty of time. F2 establishes a legal position in possession of the ball in the baseline between HP and 3B, inside the RH batter's box. R1 slides to the foul side of the baseline, feet first. The tag is made on the torso,

R1 is out at this point. Any subsequent action is irrelevant to this player's status.

but as F2 raises the glove off of R1's body, R1's arms contact the glove. R1 pulls on the glove as her momentum carries her past F2, where she touches HP. The ball comes out. BR advances to 2B when she sees the dropped ball.

Based on the assumption there is a possible play since R2 is attempting to advance, INT on a retired player, runner closest to home is out

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Asa requires the fielder to demonstrate control of the ball throughout the tag. Simply having control when the tag is initially applied is not an out if the fielder does not keep control of the ball.

Citation please

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Citation please

July 2013 Plays and Clarifications.
PLAY: No outs, bases empty. B1 hits a ball to the LC field fence. In trying to stretch the play into a triple, B1 gets caught in a run down between second and third base. During the rundown F6 dives and tags B1 on the back. F6 falls to the ground and the ball pops out of F6’s glove. The umpire rules B1 out.

RULING: B1 is out since F6 had control of the ball and completed the tag before hitting the ground and losing possession of the ball. F6 is only required to have control of the ball through the tag process to have an out. Rule 1 Tag, Rule 8, Section 7B

[RKBUmp]

2007 ASA case play 1-78

B1 hits a ground ball to F3 who gathers in the ball, runs over the the 1st baseline, tags B1 then juggles the ball and drops it.

Ruling, Because F3 did not securely hold the ball, B1 is safe.