Runner pulls on catcher's glove during slide

[teebob21]

Situation: R1 on 2B. Batter-runner hits a single to centerfield. R1 rounds 3B and comes home. The throw to F2 is in plenty of time. F2 establishes a legal position in possession of the ball in the baseline between HP and 3B, inside the RH batter's box. R1 slides to the foul side of the baseline, feet first. The tag is made on the torso, but as F2 raises the glove off of R1's body, R1's arms contact the glove. R1 pulls on the glove as her momentum carries her past F2, where she touches HP. The ball comes out. BR advances to 2B when she sees the dropped ball.

What's the correct call? Who, if anyone, is out? Does the ball remain live?

Ruleset: NCAA and/or ASA

[RKBUmp]

Did the runner physically grab the glove and pull on it, or was it just part of the slide with the catchers glove getting tangled up in the runners arms and the ball coming out?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Did the runner physically grab the glove and pull on it, or was it just part of the slide with the catchers glove getting tangled up in the runners arms and the ball coming out?

From what I saw, the runner held on to the glove and pulled it with her as she slid past.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by teebob21

From what I saw, the runner held on to the glove and pulled it with her as she slid past.

Then that is an act of interference. Did the interference happen after she scored?

EDIT: Wait... I'm not sure I understand the timing of all of this. Was the tag applied before she scored, so she was out on the tag and then she interfered and caused the ball to come out and then she touched home?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Was the tag applied before she scored, so she was out on the tag and then she interfered and caused the ball to come out and then she touched home?

This is the correct order of events as I saw it. This all happens in the half-second it takes to slide home. The pull on the glove was short, reminiscent of an infamous Alex Rodriguez play some years back.
EDIT to add: I really wish I had a video of the play to share, as just writing/talking about this play does not do justice to the speed of the game.

[jmkupka]

Looks like runner closest to home is out as well...

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by teebob21

From what I saw, the runner held on to the glove and pulled it with her as she slid past.

Interference, the runner was already retired, so the interference by a retired runner rules would apply.

[BlueDevilRef]

One of those times you must judge intent.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Situation: R1 on 2B. Batter-runner hits a single to centerfield. R1 rounds 3B and comes home. The throw to F2 is in plenty of time. F2 establishes a legal position in possession of the ball in the baseline between HP and 3B, inside the RH batter's box. R1 slides to the foul side of the baseline, feet first. The tag is made on the torso,

R1 is out at this point. Any subsequent action is irrelevant to this player's status.

but as F2 raises the glove off of R1's body, R1's arms contact the glove. R1 pulls on the glove as her momentum carries her past F2, where she touches HP. The ball comes out. BR advances to 2B when she sees the dropped ball.

Based on the assumption there is a possible play since R2 is attempting to advance, INT on a retired player, runner closest to home is out

[Andy]

Originally Posted by teebob21

.....The ball comes out. BR advances to 2B when she sees the dropped ball.....

The question here for me is how to handle the runner that is active and advancing. I agree that the runner that was tagged is out. If the the other runner only attempted to advance after the ball was on the ground, do we really have interference? The way I am reading the scenario and visualizing the play, that it what I am seeing.

I think that I just kill the play and return the runner to the last base touched.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Andy

The question here for me is how to handle the runner that is active and advancing. I agree that the runner that was tagged is out. If the the other runner only attempted to advance after the ball was on the ground, do we really have interference? The way I am reading the scenario and visualizing the play, that it what I am seeing.

I think that I just kill the play and return the runner to the last base touched.

This is what we did. We ruled that the runner was guilty of INT, but was not yet a retired runner. She interfered during an active play on herself.

After the fact, I was not able to find a rule reference in the NCAA book that I liked for my own rule support. So I posted here.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by teebob21

This is what we did. We ruled that the runner was guilty of INT, but was not yet a retired runner. She interfered during an active play on herself.

After the fact, I was not able to find a rule reference in the NCAA book that I liked for my own rule support. So I posted here.

Based on your previous posts, I'm having a hard time understanding how she had not been retired yet? From the description provided, I see a tag applied to the torso, then as the tag was being lifted off the torso, the arm grabs the glove and pulls the glove. The out was recorded as soon as she was tagged with the glove holding the ball.

I guess the bang-bang nature of the play can be used as a way to say she wasn't retired.

I think what is more important in that discussion is the nature of the actions by the batter-runner. Since it appears from your post she did not attempt to advance until the ball came loose as a result of the interference, there is no play to be made on he advancement, since the advancement didn't begin until the interference which kills the play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The question here for me is how to handle the runner that is active and advancing. I agree that the runner that was tagged is out. If the the other runner only attempted to advance after the ball was on the ground, do we really have interference? The way I am reading the scenario and visualizing the play, that it what I am seeing.

I think that I just kill the play and return the runner to the last base touched.

Gotta ask. What is the premise allowing you to kill the ball?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Gotta ask. What is the premise allowing you to kill the ball?

Well....I'm not calling interference, since there was no play being interfered with. I'm also not letting the base runner advance due to the ball being on the ground because of the retired runners intentional action of pulling the glove off of the catcher.

I think I could invoke the "umpires may rule on anything not specifically covered in these rules" (15.2) clause here.....

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Andy

Well....I'm not calling interference, since there was no play being interfered with. I'm also not letting the base runner advance due to the ball being on the ground because of the retired runners intentional action of pulling the glove off of the catcher.

I think I could invoke the "umpires may rule on anything not specifically covered in these rules" (15.2) clause here.....

The problem is if you are not ruling interference, you have to call the runner safe at home. The ball was not controlled in the tag because the glove was ripped off during the action of the tag.

In my opinion, kill the play, rule the runner out for interference. This also prevents the runner at first from advancing to second.