the "bump" at first base

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I am going to go at this from an NFHS perspective. In both a) and b) I have nothing unless I deem the act to be malicious, in which I have an ejection (and likely another to follow when the coach gets tossed for arguing).

With that said, an umpire should be able to see the repeated nature of this act by F3. After the first couple times I would be warning F3 (as well as have been calling OBS each time). If it continued beyond the warning and got to the point where the offensive team is getting frustrated enough to push the defensive player, we may have an ejection on F3 for unsportsmanlike conduct. Remember, the rule doesn't limit what is considered unsportsmanlike, is only gives examples of what could be considered unsportsmanlike. If a player is committing repeated violations of the same rule, he/she is now acting in an unsportsmanlike manner.

One other thing to consider is the way the game is going. If this is obviously a clueless F3, who really doesn't know what is going on, he/she might get multiple explanations as to the rule requirements (as well as the coach). If this is a player who you can tell has experience and knows what she is doing, the expectation will be a lot higher.

I'm not out looking for a problem, but if I see a player making a problem, it will be addressed.

If there is a warning to be issued, it must be to the coach. You can't be coaching the player. Also, if 1 warning is issued, the next violation should result in the player being restricted to the bench (and perhaps the coach as well). So if you meant after a couple of observations of OBS you would discuss with the coach, that's fine. And that would be the warning. Next would be the restriction.

I also agree w/ the "clueless" aspect of what the player is doing. Sometimes they just don't know what they should be doing. On any ball that's hit, F3's "job" is to go to first base. The "getting out of the way part" is what's often left out of the job description.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

You can't be coaching the player. .

That is absurd. Warning a player to not violate a rule is not coaching, it is doing your job.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That is absurd. Warning a player to not violate a rule is not coaching, it is doing your job.

Even so, I would still talk to the coach because the coach:
- needs to know the warning
- can adapt to the player's personality
- often does not want us talking to players
- might need to be "reminded" of the rule

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That is absurd. Warning a player to not violate a rule is not coaching, it is doing your job.

That may be a fine line. I always think that if I'm telling a player how to play the game, it's coaching. If I see a fake tag, I'll call the OBS but then let the coach know. I'm not just going to tell the player to not do that again.

If a player is violating some rule, I will always discuss it with the coach. The player may be present, but I will direct my comments to the coach.

I had a partner in a game who was PU. He called an IP on a pitcher who stepped onto the plate with hands together. The girl looked into the dugout at her coach and hunched her shoulders as if asking what she did wrong.

The PU then proceeded to walk out to the circle to explain to the pitcher how she should do it properly. Her coach was out of the dugout like a shot telling the PU not to tell his pitcher how to pitch.

Now, as far as "rules violations" go, that was a pretty simple fix. But it's something that could have been handled a lot better by the PU. He could have asked the coach to come out, explained his call, and then let the coach take it from there. That guy was and is an "OOO".

I guess it could relate to one of the sportsmanship codes for parents:
Let the players play.
Let the coaches coach.
Let the officials officiate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

That may be a fine line. I always think that if I'm telling a player how to play the game, it's coaching. If I see a fake tag, I'll call the OBS but then let the coach know. I'm not just going to tell the player to not do that again.

If a player is violating some rule, I will always discuss it with the coach. The player may be present, but I will direct my comments to the coach.

I had a partner in a game who was PU. He called an IP on a pitcher who stepped onto the plate with hands together. The girl looked into the dugout at her coach and hunched her shoulders as if asking what she did wrong.

The PU then proceeded to walk out to the circle to explain to the pitcher how she should do it properly. Her coach was out of the dugout like a shot telling the PU not to tell his pitcher how to pitch.

Now, as far as "rules violations" go, that was a pretty simple fix. But it's something that could have been handled a lot better by the PU. He could have asked the coach to come out, explained his call, and then let the coach take it from there. That guy was and is an "OOO".

I guess it could relate to one of the sportsmanship codes for parents:
Let the players play.
Let the coaches coach.
Let the officials officiate.

At no point did I suggest not telling the coach. However, I'm smart enough to know that the problem may have originated with the coach. That is why you inform the player as well as the coach of what was wrong, not how to correct it.

[tcannizzo]

This is always situational depending on the level of play.
The times I have seen this, I actually "warned" the runner and her coach, rather than the defense.

IMO, defense can commit OBS all day long, not my problem; but the offense has zero right to physically move the defender out of the way.

In extremely low-level rec, I have, on occasion, casually mentioned to the defensive coach that there is a an increased risk of collision/injury for those players who always have their foot on the base, when there is no throw coming in.

[Crabby_Bob]

Lamar at UNLV 36:10
2.12.16 Lamar @ UNLV Softball on Livestream

[jmkupka]

Thanks for the link... got caught up watching this game... at 48:35 U1 rings up runner at 1B for a LBR violation; I can't see how he gets that from her actions (thought maybe she left early, but it wasn't a DDB)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob

Lamar at UNLV 36:10
2.12.16 Lamar @ UNLV Softball on Livestream

After the call, all 3 umps, not just 2 ????

[Umpire@1]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

This is always situational depending on the level of play.
The times I have seen this, I actually "warned" the runner and her coach, rather than the defense.

IMO, defense can commit OBS all day long, not my problem; but the offense has zero right to physically move the defender out of the way.

In extremely low-level rec, I have, on occasion, casually mentioned to the defensive coach that there is a an increased risk of collision/injury for those players who always have their foot on the base, when there is no throw coming in.

Sorry,but I disagree with your comments on the offense doesn't have the right physically move the defense. if the first base person continues to stay on the inside edge of the base when the BR is going for more than one base on a base hit, and she gets knocked on her butt. Too bad!!! Get out of the way!!!

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Umpire@1

Sorry,but I disagree with your comments on the offense doesn't have the right physically move the defense. if the first base person continues to stay on the inside edge of the base when the BR is going for more than one base on a base hit, and she gets knocked on her butt. Too bad!!! Get out of the way!!!

I think there's a pendulum swing here...

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by Umpire@1

Sorry,but I disagree with your comments on the offense doesn't have the right physically move the defense. if the first base person continues to stay on the inside edge of the base when the BR is going for more than one base on a base hit, and she gets knocked on her butt. Too bad!!! Get out of the way!!!

Interesting. The only rights I am aware that the baserunner has is her chosen path to a base. There is a rule that supports this.

If I see a runner intentionally knock a defender on her butt, I have another rule that I can enforce as appropriate to the action.

But you write that this is just a part of the softball game?
I am ready to be enlightened with a rule that supports this.