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Old Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:05pm
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I'll go on record as saying a push is an intentional, deliberate act.

Is UC only valid for NFHS?

Penalties for various codes?
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Old Sun Feb 14, 2016, 08:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
I'll go on record as saying a push is an intentional, deliberate act.

Is UC only valid for NFHS?

Penalties for various codes?
Sounds as if you would lean toward an UC or malicious contact call on the runner. If so, why would F3 get a free pass after continuously positioning themselves in the path of the runner? If you are going to eject the runner for the contact, why not also eject the fielder for UC for repeatedly and deliberately getting in the way of the runners.

NFHS malicious contact by the offense is always an out call and ejection, ASA has no provisions for an out call for UC. At the conclusion of play, call time, inform the coach the player has been ejected and they need a substitute to replace the runner.
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Old Sun Feb 14, 2016, 03:52pm
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Originally Posted by RKBUmp View Post
Sounds as if you would lean toward an UC or malicious contact call on the runner. If so, why would F3 get a free pass after continuously positioning themselves in the path of the runner? If you are going to eject the runner for the contact, why not also eject the fielder for UC for repeatedly and deliberately getting in the way of the runners.

NFHS malicious contact by the offense is always an out call and ejection, ASA has no provisions for an out call for UC. At the conclusion of play, call time, inform the coach the player has been ejected and they need a substitute to replace the runner.
I'm not leaning at all. I wanted to offer the opinion that a push is usually a deliberate act.

I'll play along. F3 isn't getting a free pass. She's getting OBS called on her every time this happens - with appropriate penalties as warranted.

So far, I'm not ejecting anyone. Others may be. If someone else opts to eject the runner for some violation, tossing the fielder as well simply sounds like an emotional response to the situation. What rule support is there for ejection of either player (NFHS or ASA)? Note that while a push I will consider deliberate need not, by definition, be malicious.

Carry on...
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Old Sun Feb 14, 2016, 11:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
I'm not leaning at all. I wanted to offer the opinion that a push is usually a deliberate act.

I'll play along. F3 isn't getting a free pass. She's getting OBS called on her every time this happens - with appropriate penalties as warranted.

So far, I'm not ejecting anyone. Others may be. If someone else opts to eject the runner for some violation, tossing the fielder as well simply sounds like an emotional response to the situation. What rule support is there for ejection of either player (NFHS or ASA)? Note that while a push I will consider deliberate need not, by definition, be malicious.

Carry on...
An OBS call means very little if the collision results in an injury. As has been repeated by multiple sources for years, being in a position to obstruct a runner is not a free shot at the defender for the runner.

What type of rule would you expect to "justify" an ejection? Unsportsmanlike conduct seems appropriate anytime one player initiates unecessary contact intentionally with another player. Please note, I'm not suggesting an ejection every time one player runs into another.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 10:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
...

I'll play along. F3 isn't getting a free pass. She's getting OBS called on her every time this happens - with appropriate penalties as warranted....
The issue with this line of thinking is that there is no "penalty" for Obstruction. If it is called in the specific situation mentioned, we (umpires) simply place the runners where they would have been anyway. Some coaches have figured this out and determined that the reward (an out they might not have gotten) outweighs the risk of the obstruction call.

If F3 is habitually going to the inside corner of first base on every base hit, it is either a fielder that doesn't know any better or she has been coached to do it.

I like and have used the Irish solution, tell the coach and/or player not to do that anymore....and then what is the consequence when a player or coach refuses to follow a specific directive from the umpire? Ejection....
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:38pm
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The issue with this line of thinking is that there is no "penalty" for Obstruction. If it is called in the specific situation mentioned, we (umpires) simply place the runners where they would have been anyway. Some coaches have figured this out and determined that the reward (an out they might not have gotten) outweighs the risk of the obstruction call.

If F3 is habitually going to the inside corner of first base on every base hit, it is either a fielder that doesn't know any better or she has been coached to do it.

I like and have used the Irish solution, tell the coach and/or player not to do that anymore....and then what is the consequence when a player or coach refuses to follow a specific directive from the umpire? Ejection....
In a Co-rec game in Plant City between Bahamas and Great Britain, my partner (BU) had warned the player and coach (Bahamas) that F3 (female) could not continue the run to and plant her foot on the inside corner of 1B on every batted ball not to her. There was OBS called every time there was not a play at that base on a batted-ball. Luckily, the GB players did everything to avoid it, but there were a couple of occassions where contact occurred.

I believe it was the 3rd or 4th inning when BU called time after the play and led that player to the dugout and told the coach he needed to make a change at 1B due to F3 not adusting her play to avoid the OBS. Coach asked if she was being ejected. I believe my partner's response was something along the line of "not yet".

IMO, this is much like dealing with a batter that cannot stop unintentionally slinging/throwing a bat after contact.
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