Batted ball hits runner....or maybe not!

[Linknblue]

ASA...
Runner on 2nd, no outs. Fields in very bad shape (like a beach volley ball court, 3 inches deep) between bases.

Batter hits ball sharply between short and 2nd base with runner moving toward 3rd. I'm PU and see ball and runners foot very close and ball takes at least a 30 degree movement to the right of the original path of ball right at where ball, ground and runners heel seem to all come together. I call dead ball, runners out, ball hit runner. I'm as right as I think I can be.

Dust settles, literally, and after a bit of confusion, my partner and I confer. She tells me that it didn't hit her, was about half foot away and ball must have hit one of the many dust/dirt mounds in the base path to make it's change of angle. She's 100 percent positive ball didn't hit runner.

Ok. so now we have to make it right as best we can and put runners on 1st and 3rd. Coaches don't argue so we're good.

My partner, veteran of many years, tells me that I should not have called dead ball. I should wait until play is done then rule. Her logic being that if SS still had a chance to field the ball and ball didn't pass an infielder capable of making the play we don't have anything on ball hitting runner.

I was always taught to rule when ball hits runner immediately....but now I'm rethinking.

When should this be called? Immediately or after play stops? Or something different?

By the way, SS wasn't near enough to make a play on the ball.

John

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

ASA...
Runner on 2nd, no outs. Fields in very bad shape (like a beach volley ball court, 3 inches deep) between bases.

Batter hits ball sharply between short and 2nd base with runner moving toward 3rd. I'm PU and see ball and runners foot very close and ball takes at least a 30 degree movement to the right of the original path of ball right at where ball, ground and runners heel seem to all come together. I call dead ball, runners out, ball hit runner. I'm as right as I think I can be.

Dust settles, literally, and after a bit of confusion, my partner and I confer. She tells me that it didn't hit her, was about half foot away and ball must have hit one of the many dust/dirt mounds in the base path to make it's change of angle. She's 100 percent positive ball didn't hit runner.

Ok. so now we have to make it right as best we can and put runners on 1st and 3rd. Coaches don't argue so we're good.

My partner, veteran of many years, tells me that I should not have called dead ball. I should wait until play is done then rule. Her logic being that if SS still had a chance to field the ball and ball didn't pass an infielder capable of making the play we don't have anything on ball hitting runner.

I was always taught to rule when ball hits runner immediately....but now I'm rethinking.

When should this be called? Immediately or after play stops? Or something different?

By the way, SS wasn't near enough to make a play on the ball.

John

She may be a veteran, but this might be her 20th year as a newbie.

She is also dead wrong. Not judging your call, but if that is the call it is always an immediate dead ball, runner is out and all other runners return to last base at the time of the INT. ASA 8.7.K and Effect

[CecilOne]

"Her logic being that if SS still had a chance to field the ball and ball didn't pass an infielder capable of making the play we don't have anything on ball hitting runner."

Just the opposite ??

[EsqUmp]

Her logic is wrong, but her conclusion may not be. You have all day to kill the ball. But you can't bring a defibrillator out there to bring it back to life. Why are umpires so quick to kill the ball without being sure of a violation? FOUR times this year my base umpire called a dead ball on a batted ball that allegedly hit the batter in the batter's box. In NONE of those cases did that happen. I didn't "not see it hit her" but saw that it DIDN'T hit her. Two were confirmed on video. Two were 20 feet up the line. Both were HUGH calls in the game.

LEAVE THE PHANTOMS IN THE BAG!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Her logic is wrong, but her conclusion may not be. You have all day to kill the ball. But you can't bring a defibrillator out there to bring it back to life. Why are umpires so quick to kill the ball without being sure of a violation?

There is no doubt it should not be called if the umpire is not 100% sure there was a violation. That said, her conclusion and reasoning is not correct simply because the rule states that it is a dead ball. Last thing any umpire needs is to have two different sets of rules being enforced when this experienced veteran tells a coach that it isn't an immediate dead ball and allows a double play to stand in a previous game. Making it up to suit oneself is simply not good officiating.

FOUR times this year my base umpire called a dead ball on a batted ball that allegedly hit the batter in the batter's box. In NONE of those cases did that happen. I didn't "not see it hit her" but saw that it DIDN'T hit her. Two were confirmed on video. Two were 20 feet up the line. Both were HUGH calls in the game.

Absolutely should not be making that call unless there is 1) no doubt, and I mean no possibility of being wrong and 2) it is Stevie Wonder seeing it obvious the PU did not see it (and having given the PU enough time to make the call), should a BU ever open their mouth

[Linknblue]

Thanks guys. I kinda figured my "mechanic" was correct in making the call. "Immediate dead ball" though the "field conditions" ended up fooling me into thinking the ball hit the runner when it really didn't. I hate sand dune field conditions!!!

Given another go at this "and" considering same field conditions I think I would have delayed my call a bit to see if any one's reaction would confirm it. But it is what is was....

Thanks again....

John