Dangerous Play

[representing]

A situation came up in a Varsity Boys Match.

Two opposing players going after ball to play it. The one trips and falls near the ball while the other attempts to kick the ball. As a result, the kicking player accidentally kicks the falling player in the face with the ball and his foot. My partner blows his whistle before I could and calls a dangerous play on the kicking player. My take, as the way I interpreted the NFHS rules is that the falling player puts himself at risk of injury near the opposing player when he fell, albeit accidentally, and therefore the dangerous play should have been called against him (the falling player), and not the kicking player.

I brought this up with the president of our chapter when I saw him a few days later and he said that the call my partner made is right because the kicking player should have held his kick when he saw the opposing player falling accidentally, emphasizing that he fell accidentally and not deliberately. I disagree, as 1) the kicking player was already in his kicking motion while the other was falling, and 2) there is nothing that I see in the rules (NFHS or FIFA) that says a dangerous play must be deliberate or accidental.

Your take?

[phatneff]

To me, this is one of those scenarios where I would have to be there to see it before I could make a comment on it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

A situation came up in a Varsity Boys Match.

Two opposing players going after ball to play it. The one trips and falls near the ball while the other attempts to kick the ball. As a result, the kicking player accidentally kicks the falling player in the face with the ball and his foot. My partner blows his whistle before I could and calls a dangerous play on the kicking player. My take, as the way I interpreted the NFHS rules is that the falling player puts himself at risk of injury near the opposing player when he fell, albeit accidentally, and therefore the dangerous play should have been called against him (the falling player), and not the kicking player.

I brought this up with the president of our chapter when I saw him a few days later and he said that the call my partner made is right because the kicking player should have held his kick when he saw the opposing player falling accidentally, emphasizing that he fell accidentally and not deliberately. I disagree, as 1) the kicking player was already in his kicking motion while the other was falling, and 2) there is nothing that I see in the rules (NFHS or FIFA) that says a dangerous play must be deliberate or accidental.

Your take?

I agree with you, not your partner or your chapter president.
As you state the facts of the play, I would either call nothing at all or penalize the player who put himself in danger.
Now if I felt that the player attempting to kick the ball could clearly see the fallen player and should have held up and petitioned the referee for a call (players do this by stopping and putting an arm up), then I would penalize the kicker for kicking the opponent and award a DFK.

[Eastshire]

I agree with Nevada. It's dangerous play by the falling player or nothing.

[representing]

Thanks for the responses. I emailed a referee at USSF headquarters using that askareferee email address, and the responder said that there's nothing according to how I described the play. However, as I remember the play vividly, I would have definitely called the dangerous play on the falling player and then would have some explaining to do to the coach haha.

"BUT HE KICKED MY PLAYER IN THE FACE!!!"
"Yeah, but he fell near the the ball, putting himself in danger..."

EDIT: Additionally, I agree that if the player would have stopped and threw his arms up, I would immediately stop play and award an IFK. However, if he just taps the ball away to play it, I would have waited a second or two to see if an advantage is there.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by representing

Thanks for the responses. I emailed a referee at USSF headquarters using that askareferee email address, and the responder said that there's nothing according to how I described the play. However, as I remember the play vividly, I would have definitely called the dangerous play on the falling player and then would have some explaining to do to the coach haha.

"BUT HE KICKED MY PLAYER IN THE FACE!!!"
"Yeah, but he fell near the the ball, putting himself in danger..."

EDIT: Additionally, I agree that if the player would have stopped and threw his arms up, I would immediately stop play and award an IFK. However, if he just taps the ball away to play it, I would have waited a second or two to see if an advantage is there.

Remember that it's a different answer for USSF and NFHS. USSF only has a dangerous play for putting an opponent in danger of injury. NHS has dangerous play for putting anyone (including yourself or a teammate) in danger.

In USSF, this is nothing, but in NFHS it may be a dangerous play.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Remember that it's a different answer for USSF and NFHS. USSF only has a dangerous play for putting an opponent in danger of injury. NHS has dangerous play for putting anyone (including yourself or a teammate) in danger.

In USSF, this is nothing, but in NFHS it may be a dangerous play.

Thank you. That clears it up a lot for me. I guess I missed that key word in the USSF/FIFA and NFHS rulebook.

[ByronRobinson]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Remember that it's a different answer for USSF and NFHS. USSF only has a dangerous play for putting an opponent in danger of injury. NHS has dangerous play for putting anyone (including yourself or a teammate) in danger.

In USSF, this is nothing, but in NFHS it may be a dangerous play.

That shows better to play USSF rather than NFHS.........

[bainsey]

What would you say are the most common reasons to call dangerous play? Here are four that come to my mind (taking into account there's someone else -- or an opponent, in USSF -- in the vicinity):

*Playing the ball while on the ground
*Playing the ball with a foot
*Raising a knee while someone approaches them
*Sliding directly at someone with cleats up

Who wants to add to the list?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

What would you say are the most common reasons to call dangerous play? Here are four that come to my mind (taking into account there's someone else -- or an opponent, in USSF -- in the vicinity):

*Playing the ball while on the ground
*Playing the ball with a foot
*Raising a knee while someone approaches them
*Sliding directly at someone with cleats up

Who wants to add to the list?

The two most common causes in my experience if kicks above the waist and headers at or below the waist.

I have a hard time imagining giving DP for a studs up challenge. If they come up short, it's trifling and if they don't it's a DFK foul and a caution.

[phatneff]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I have a hard time imagining giving DP for a studs up challenge. If they come up short, it's trifling and if they don't it's a DFK foul and a caution.

If I recall, there was a NFHS directive last year about cautioning for a tackle with studs up, assuming they make contact with the opponent. I give that warning at every captains' pregame meeting.

Also, there is a difference between a "controlled" kick above the waist and an "uncontrolled" kick above the waist. I will not give an IDK for DP if the player who could be in violation shows control with that foot and, in my discretion, is showing not to be dangerous.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by phatneff

If I recall, there was a NFHS directive last year about cautioning for a tackle with studs up, assuming they make contact with the opponent. I give that warning at every captains' pregame meeting.

Also, there is a difference between a "controlled" kick above the waist and an "uncontrolled" kick above the waist. I will not give an IDK for DP if the player who could be in violation shows control with that foot and, in my discretion, is showing not to be dangerous.

The issue in DP is not the player's control, but the reaction of the other players to that play. If the other players back down from playing the ball because of concern for their safety, that is what we are meant to penalize. The potentially offending player's skill is a very small factor in that.