Dangerous, Deadly Dangerous

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Here's the result of our "ball lodged in the glove discussions."

SITUATION 6: B1 hits a slow roller down the first-base line. F1 rushes over to field the ball, but cannot get the ball out of his glove. He quickly removes his glove with the ball still in it, and shovels the glove to the first baseman, who is in contact with the base. The first baseman catches the glove with the ball in it just before B1 touches the base. RULING: When F1 removes his glove with the ball lodged in it and shoveled it to the first baseman, the umpire should declare “Time,” and award all runners, including the batter-runner, two bases. This is a ball that is lodged in a player’s equipment. (2-9-1, 8-3-3c, 5-1-1f-5)

Oh My!

Apparently being able to lodge a ball in someone's equipment is a great offensive skill.... it's not the defensive team's inability to make a play due to a misplay or equipment malfunction, it's an offensive skill.

We won't have any of those deadly gloves with lodged balls flying around the infield!

Dammit coach, another slow roller lodged in my glove again.

[GarthB]

A dark day for baseball.

[jicecone]

3b Coach: "Come on Johnnie, bases loaded, lodge one in the glove for us."

[danreeves1973]

We discussed this one at a meeting last week, quite a few of the area coaches there as well. General feeling on it is its a bad ruling and that now the coaches are going to be preaching don't take that glove off, just don't do it.

[DG]

Originally posted by danreeves1973
We discussed this one at a meeting last week, quite a few of the area coaches there as well. General feeling on it is its a bad ruling and that now the coaches are going to be preaching don't take that glove off, just don't do it.

That seems to be exactly what FED wants, don't take that glove of, and throw it around.

[mcrowder]

Awful.

Now couple it with this:

SITUATION 7: B1 hits a sharp ground ball to F1, who gloves the ball from the mound. As B1 nears first base, F1 has trouble pulling the ball from the webbing of his glove. B1 touches first base and F1 is able to eventually pull the ball from his glove. RULING: The play stands. This is not a lodged ball as the pitcher was able to extract the ball from his glove. Since he did not toss his glove with the ball lodged in it to F3, the ball stays live, the play stands, and there is no award of bases. (2-9-1)

So, if I'm reading these right, in sitch 7, we must actually wait to see if F1 can remove the ball from his glove. If he can't, we're back to sitch 6.

What if he calls time, with the ball still in his glove? How do we know whether it was lodged or not? Are they trying to say that it's only lodged if the equipment comes off?

Awful, just awful.

[gobama84]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Awful.

What if he calls time, with the ball still in his glove? How do we know whether it was lodged or not? Are they trying to say that it's only lodged if the equipment comes off?

Awful, just awful.

I don't allow players to call time. They can only request time and in this situation, I'm not giving it.

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Awful.

Now couple it with this:

SITUATION 7: B1 hits a sharp ground ball to F1, who gloves the ball from the mound. As B1 nears first base, F1 has trouble pulling the ball from the webbing of his glove. B1 touches first base and F1 is able to eventually pull the ball from his glove. RULING: The play stands. This is not a lodged ball as the pitcher was able to extract the ball from his glove. Since he did not toss his glove with the ball lodged in it to F3, the ball stays live, the play stands, and there is no award of bases. (2-9-1)

So, if I'm reading these right, in sitch 7, we must actually wait to see if F1 can remove the ball from his glove. If he can't, we're back to sitch 6.

What if he calls time, with the ball still in his glove? How do we know whether it was lodged or not? Are they trying to say that it's only lodged if the equipment comes off?

Awful, just awful.

Well, I agree that the ruling(s) are awful.
Still, I think the key in #7 is "eventually". I cannot imagine a sitch in which the ball cannot be extracted "eventually" without removing the glove, which is what has the FED rules guys in a flutter.
So, yeah, the short answer to "how do we know if it's lodged" is: "did he take off the glove?"

We have several "awful" case book plays this year. My fav is the caught-foul mechanics error do-over. Nobody but umpires is gonna get excited about the two plays where the lodged-ball/glove sitch happens. Somebody somewhere in Fedland is going to need an armed escort to the car for indicating "Foul" before the ball is caught in foul territory.

[mcrowder]

Don't mean to make this TWP...

F3 fields the ball cleanly, touches the bag for the third out and runs to the dugout. 30 seconds later when F1 of the other team is asking for the ball, we go ask F3 for it - the reply: "Can't give it to you, it's stuck."

OK - everyone back on the field, BR on 2nd base, 2 outs.

Yes - I've driven this to the point of absurdity ... then again, this ruling STARTED at the point of absurdity.

If they simply wanted to stop the tossing of equipment around the field, they could have just made a rule about detached equipment with the ball in it causing the dead ball and base award. I STILL disagree with it, even if they'd made the rule that way, but at least it avoids the umpire having to make any distinction about when a ball is "lodged."

Try this one, combining the 2 situations.

R1, ball hit to F6 who scoops it, touches 2nd, can't get the ball out, and flings the glove and ball to 1st.

By CP 7, this is out at 2nd, and by CP 6, BR to 2nd. Under these rules and rulings, this is how I'd handle it. But if this is what transpired, the ball was actually lodged before the point of the out at 2nd, not at the point of detaching the equipment (and F6 didn't "eventually" remove the ball from the glove at all). Shouldn't this be no outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd?

[danreeves1973]

Maybe I just haven't called enough games or didn't play enough baseball when I was in school, but how often, realistically, are you going to have a situation where the ball is lodged in the mitt to the point to where it won't come out with two or three seconds of work?

Actaully I'm still trying to figure out how you can lodge a ball in a mitt so badly that you can't get it out by simply reachign in and pulling it out. I'm sure I'm overlooking the obvious so please sxplain it to me.

[Manny A]

Originally posted by danreeves1973
Maybe I just haven't called enough games or didn't play enough baseball when I was in school, but how often, realistically, are you going to have a situation where the ball is lodged in the mitt to the point to where it won't come out with two or three seconds of work?

Actaully I'm still trying to figure out how you can lodge a ball in a mitt so badly that you can't get it out by simply reachign in and pulling it out. I'm sure I'm overlooking the obvious so please sxplain it to me.

I've seen it happen on ESPN Sportscenter a couple of times, and it always involves F1. In fact, the MLB Umpire Manual recently posted an update at the end of Section 5 to cover this exact situation: The new interpretation goes on to emphasize that a ball stuck in a fielder's glove is not to be considered out of play; the ball remains live. It is legal for one fielder to throw the glove with a live ball stuck in it to another fielder. A fielder who possesses the ball/glove combination in his own hand or glove can complete a tag of a runner or base, just as if he were holding only the ball.

Manny

[ozzy6900]

Originally posted by Manny A
I've seen it happen on ESPN Sportscenter a couple of times, and it always involves F1. In fact, the MLB Umpire Manual recently posted an update at the end of Section 5 to cover this exact situation: The new interpretation goes on to emphasize that a ball stuck in a fielder's glove is not to be considered out of play; the ball remains live. It is legal for one fielder to throw the glove with a live ball stuck in it to another fielder. A fielder who possesses the ball/glove combination in his own hand or glove can complete a tag of a runner or base, just as if he were holding only the ball.

Manny

That's correct but the FED hasn't caught up with this yet!

[mcrowder]

In fact, not only has Fed not caught up with this, but they've gone in the opposite direction.

[DG]

Originally posted by mcrowder
In fact, not only has Fed not caught up with this, but they've gone in the opposite direction.

I am certain FED is aware of other rulings including MLB. However, they clearly do not want gloves thrown around with balls in them. Definition of lodged = thrown glove.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by DG
...Definition of lodged = thrown glove.

Not sure that is true.

Perhaps
thrown glove = lodged
I can live with that

But I think lodged includes more than just, I had to throw my glove.