Falling and handling

[Multiple Sports]

Yo brother -

You are always right on it on the hoops forum, As a fellow bb ref who works soccer in the fall as well, think of it this way.

We don't call a kick in bball umless there is intent. I treat a handball the same way. No intent no whistle.

You could argue according to the definition, that any hand ball is worthy of a card (yellow) because the player did it on purpose to stop an advantage......

Wondering what the "soccer guys" think.. I am a basketball zebra masquerading as a soocer official in the fall........

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

You are always right on it on the hoops forum

Always? Okay, that's your first mistake...

We don't call a kick in bball umless [sic] there is intent. I treat a handball the same way. No intent no whistle.

With this, I disagree. Not all of our handling calls have to do with clear intent.

Eastshire's point is well taken. If someone is deliberately trying to cut off a passing/shooting lane, and there's ball-to-arm, that's a foul. However, as we all know, players could have a number of reasons why they stretch their arms up or out. They may not be deliberately trying to cut off such lanes, but intentions are typically irrelevant, as the arm really shouldn't have been out there in the first place. It's still a foul, though it may not be a deliberate act, because it's more about the advantage.

Now, the basketball kicking violation indeed falls in the same realm. A number of times, we've seen a basketball defender jump straight up in the air, and take a pass on the knee. Tweet! Was he deliberately trying to kick the ball? No, if anything, he was trying to block the ball-handler's view, but in the same realm, he made himself bigger with the lower part of his body, and the ball-to-leg contact is typically whistled a violation. (Mind you, I've never heard any basketball officiating trainer use the phrase "make himself bigger." That's always been a soccer thing.) Again, it's about the advantage.

Back to my play, there was no advantage about falling on the ball, which is why I now don't feel right about whistling it. I just believed I had to, though something was telling me it wasn't right. Perhaps I knew, deep down, it wasn't the right call.

[phatneff]

Another great discussion.

In these cases, I'll yell out "INCIDENTAL" because that's what it is and let play continue. I don't yell out "UNINTENTIONAL" because it is intentional to hit the ball with the arm since it happens to be between the player and the field.

[DadofTwins]

The foul is "deliberate handling." The description in the OP isn't deliberate. No foul.