Offside?

[RefSouthAlb]

Here's the sitch

2 offensive person's on a breakaway having beat the 2nd last defender.

The person with the ball is challenged by the keeper and passes the ball:

1. Forward to his partner who scores

2. Back to his partner who scores.

Given the partner is behind the second last defender whem the ball is kicked are both situations off side?

I am watching the World Cup a few instances I have seen a similar play that hasn't been called off side.

[CecilOne]

1) Offside

2) Not offside if not ahead (closer to goal line) of the ball

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RefSouthAlb

Here's the sitch

2 offensive person's on a breakaway having beat the 2nd last defender.

The person with the ball is challenged by the keeper and passes the ball:

1. Forward to his partner who scores

2. Back to his partner who scores.

Given the partner is behind the second last defender whem the ball is kicked are both situations off side?

I am watching the World Cup a few instances I have seen a similar play that hasn't been called off side.

Hopefully, this will help make it clearer for you.
A. If the player is BEHIND the ball at the time it is played by a teammate, the player is ALWAYS onside.

B. If the player is AHEAD of the ball at the time it is played by a teammate, there MUST be TWO opponents (one of which could be the goalkeeper) nearer to the goal line than that player.

Now let's examine your two plays with the above in mind.
In both cases there is only one defender back. That defender is the goalkeeper as the last field player has been left in the dust by the two attackers.
Therefore, the location of the player relative to the location of the ball is the determining factor for the offside decision.
Simply look at if the player is farther from the goal line than the ball (BEHIND the ball) when his teammate passes it to him. If so, then the play is legal. If not, then an offside infraction has occurred.

Please note that the direction the ball is kicked does NOT matter. The ball may be passed forward and the teammate may have been BEHIND it at the time it was kicked, but then runs forward to receive it. That is fine.

However, the converse it not true. If the ball is kicked backward, but the player was in front of it (nearer to the goal line) when it was passed by the teammate, he may NOT run backwards and receive the ball behind the location of the passer. That is offside. The teammate's location is determined at the moment the ball is kicked. Movement after that does NOT change offside or onside decisions.

[CecilOne]

The most frequently argued offside call is Nevadaref's example of "he may NOT run backwards and receive the ball behind the location of the passer"

[RefSouthAlb]

I see makes it clear.

Interesting as I am reading this Adriano from Brazil has scored a goal against Ghana that is exactly this situation.

In looking at the replay when the ball was kicked by Cafu although only the goalie was back Adriano was behind the play and ran onto it hence the reason the AR did not raise his flag.

The GHANA players of course are confused by the lack of call. I should forward them this email LOL

[RefSouthAlb]

Whoops.

in lookingat it a second time may have been a missed call by the AR.

Not sure if anyone saw this. I believe Adriano was in an offside position when the ball was first played just over half although he was not involved in the play.

When he scored I believe he was offside (again) when the ball was kicked.

You sure can see a lot more in slo mo.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RefSouthAlb

Whoops.

in lookingat it a second time may have been a missed call by the AR.

Not sure if anyone saw this. I believe Adriano was in an offside position when the ball was first played just over half although he was not involved in the play.

When he scored I believe he was offside (again) when the ball was kicked.

You sure can see a lot more in slo mo.

At 45:07 (stoppage time in the 1st half) the ball is played from the midfield line almost exactly on the kick-off spot. The pass goes wide to the right where two Brazil players who are onside are running forward (Kaka and Cafu). At this time Adriano is in an offside position in the center of the field. He is standing just outside of the center circle. The AR correctly keeps the flag down as he is not involved in active play at this time. Kaka receives this pass and dribbles down the field. He then makes a short pass to Cafu at 45:12. Cafu is the player nearest the AR and is onside. Cafu now carries the ball towards the goal line and serves it across the top of the goal area to Adriano.

At the time Cafu strikes the ball (45:13) Adriano is running beside the 2nd last defender who is right next to him about nine yards from goal. It is difficult to tell from the camera angle of the live action whether he is level with him or slightly in front of him because this camera is behind the play. However the replay shown at 45:42 is from a camera angle that is positioned straight across the field and shows very clearly that Adriano is one step in front of the 2nd last defender and was indeed offside. The goal should have been disallowed.

Of course, this is a very difficult play for the AR as he has made a decision at midfield and then had to run all that way down into the penalty area with players and make another decision. With the speed of play that this level and how close the positioning was, it is hard to fault him.

[rbradway]

In regards to your post, the NFHS rule book says that the moment the ball is played, a player is offside when he/she is nearer to the opponents goal line than the second to last defender. It has no mention of wheather the ball is played back, or forward to a teammate. It says wheather the second player becomes INVOLVED in the play. so if he passes back, offside, catches rebound bouncing off the keeper, or goal post, player is offside. If you have the rule book, or have acces to the web site ( www.nfhs.org ) it is rule 11. would help out.

there was a study done, and showed there was no difference in the rule between NCAA-NISOA, High School Federation, and FIFA. The differances were in where the player was positioned at the moment the ball was played.

this info is also posted on the rules info link on the nfhs web site too.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by rbradway

In regards to your post, the NFHS rule book says that the moment the ball is played, a player is offside when he/she is nearer to the opponents goal line than the second to last defender. It has no mention of wheather the ball is played back, or forward to a teammate. It says wheather the second player becomes INVOLVED in the play. so if he passes back, offside, catches rebound bouncing off the keeper, or goal post, player is offside. If you have the rule book, or have acces to the web site ( www.nfhs.org ) it is rule 11. would help out.

there was a study done, and showed there was no difference in the rule between NCAA-NISOA, High School Federation, and FIFA. The differances were in where the player was positioned at the moment the ball was played.

this info is also posted on the rules info link on the nfhs web site too.

NFHS Rule 11 says no such thing. Its says "a player is in an offside position when nearer to his/her opponents goal line than the ball", unless in their own half or not nearer the opponent's goal line than at least two opponents.
Also "only be penalized ... if, at the moment the ball ... by a teammate, that player is involved in active play by ..."

Right, there is nothing about the direction of the pass, it's about the position of the player. If a player is in an offside position, it doesn't matter which direction the ball is passed, just where the player is at that moment and whether involved in active play.

[Nevadaref]

I don't know how this thread got turned down the path of the NFHS rules book (which does use the same offside law as FIFA, but differs in many other aspects of the game), but here is the most recent clarification from the world governing body:

IFAB clarifies the on-field application of "Law 11-Offside" A working group meeting of the International Football Association Board (IFAB), chaired by FIFA Vice-President and chairman of the Referees’ Committee Angel Maria Villar Llona, took place in Zurich on 11 August 2005 to provide clarification on the on-field application of Law 11, Decisions 1 and 2, of the Laws of the Game (http://www.fifa.com/en/regulations/regulation/0,1584,3,00.html) . The wording of Law 11 and Decisions 1 and 2 taken by the IFAB during its meeting in the Vale of Glamorgan, Wales, on 26 February 2005 were not changed, nor was their spirit. However, the first on-field experiences of the application of these decisions indicated a need for clarification. For that purpose, the working group met and agreed on the following text as "advice on the application of Law 11, IFAB Decision 2": "A player in an offside position may be penalised before playing or touching the ball if, in the opinion of the referee, no other team-mate in an onside position has the opportunity to play the ball. "If an opponent becomes involved in the play and if, in the opinion of the referee, there is potential for physical contact, the player in the offside position shall be penalised for interfering with an opponent." In addition, the IFAB also agreed on the following clarification with regard to the position where the game restarts following an offside offence (Law 11 – Infringements/Sanctions): "The restart of the game shall be with an indirect free kick taken from the initial place where the player was adjudged to be in an offside position." FIFA’s member associations were informed of the IFAB advice by circular on 17 August 2005 and are subsequently responsible for communicating these instructions to the referees and assistant referees within their associations. FIFA also reminded its associations of Art. 6 paragraph 1 of the FIFA Statutes, which clearly states: "Each member of FIFA shall play Association Football in compliance with the Laws of the Game issued by IFAB. Only IFAB may lay down and alter the Laws of the Game." The circular closed by noting that the decisions of the IFAB and the Statutes of FIFA must be respected in their entirety.