Out of control?

[wardtc]

Am I nuts? What could I have done better?

This weekend I reffed in a tournament. Most games I had were U11 & U12 boys and girls.

As I have seen kids at this age group challanging for the ball with arms extended. elbows up, grabbing, holding, etc.... I specifically mentioned that I would have none of this during the team check ins.

the game started, and sure enough, arms ups, etc...., I called them when they were very obvious, hoping to set the tone for the game, and let these kids settle down a little. Just the opposite happened! It seemed to get worse! The players started getting frustrated and committing even more fouls. It didn't help that the parents were openly dissentful, urging the kids to push back. The coaches (both) did not help as every call was against thier player (of course).

What should I have done better/differerent.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wardtc

Am I nuts? What could I have done better?

This weekend I reffed in a tournament. Most games I had were U11 & U12 boys and girls.

As I have seen kids at this age group challanging for the ball with arms extended. elbows up, grabbing, holding, etc.... I specifically mentioned that I would have none of this during the team check ins.

the game started, and sure enough, arms ups, etc...., I called them when they were very obvious, hoping to set the tone for the game, and let these kids settle down a little. Just the opposite happened! It seemed to get worse! The players started getting frustrated and committing even more fouls. It didn't help that the parents were openly dissentful, urging the kids to push back. The coaches (both) did not help as every call was against thier player (of course).

What should I have done better/differerent.

Ward,
Since you have taken past advice very positively and I hope that it has truly helped you, I'm going to be a little tougher and give you a couple of items that you absolutely must start doing.

1. I know that you are still rather new to reffing, but you have to get tougher when it comes to taking control of the game environment. By that I mean not only what happens inside the lines. At the youth level, YOU are the one who must manage the sidelines. Certainly at the U12 level you should not be putting up with coaches and parents complaining about the officiating. They will behave as poorly as you allow. So what should you do about it?
a. The coach is the problem. At the next stoppage (ball out of play or a free kick is awarded) hit the whistle and stop the kids from continuing play. Jog over near the offending coach and tell him that his behavior is unacceptable, he needs to direct his focus to HIS team, and warn him that if the behavior continues you will remove him. Then follow through.
b. The parents are the problem. Same as #1, but when you reach the coach of the team whose parents are misbehaving, you instruct the coach that at the youth level HE is responsible for controlling the behavior of his spectators. Let him know that their comments need to be POSITIVE and directed at the kids, not the officials. Also be sure to let him know that if he isn't successful in altering their behavior you will have to remove them AND HE LEAVES WITH THEM.

2. Don't make any comments at the pregame equipment inspection or captains meeting about how you are going to call the game! That is not the time or place for it. Keep this for things such as make sure you aren't wearing any jewelry, keep your shirts tucked in, and tell the captains that they are the team leaders and that they need to make sure no one on their team causes any problems, for if they do you will have to deal with it and we all know how refs deal with that kind of stuff (hint: giving cards).

3. During the game, if in YOUR opinion the challenges are unfair or unsafe (and that is the only person's opinion which matters since YOU are the referee), blow the whistle and point. Don't say anything, don't give odd signals, just whistle and point. If the kids keep it up, then keep whistling the fouls.
They will either alter their tactics or give up free kick after free kick.
The kids will eventually change or one of them (or perhaps a coach) will ask you why that is a foul. Tell this person that you will explain it to the captain. When the captain finally gets around to inquiring about it. Tell him/her that his/her teammates need to keep their arms/elbows down when challenging for the ball, stop coming in from behind, keep the boots down, etc. Just make sure that it is something short and simple that the captain can pass on to the team and then go on with the match.

I'm sure that you are learning quickly as you keep doing more and more matches. Tournaments are a very productive learning ground as you can get in a bunch of games in a short period of time AND have the opportunity to work with quite a few other refs. You can always learn something from your colleagues. Some will teach you things that work and which you should emulate, others will demonstrate techniques that you should stay away from.

Lastly, the level of play will tell you how much contact the kids can handle. You will find a feel for it. Best wishes and hang in there.

[wardtc]

Tough Love - I really do appreciate it.

To your last comment, maybe I am the one who is demonstrating those techniques that should not be copied. OK - well we all started somewhere right. Just think - when I am mentoring new ref's, the stories I will have!

As I think through your advice, it does make sense. If I give instructions at the pre game check in, then I am obligated to follow through and call them. If I instead, just tell them I'm going to call a fair game, they have to look to their coach for guidance. OK - makes sense.

So does the advice on parents. I have always been told to ignore them. In this case, it incited the kids to misbehave. Since it is a bad situation to just ignore it, and I have no real control over the parents, the coach is the only one who can help. If he chooses not to - the team suffers.

All right, time to screw my head on straight and do it right. I've got a U13B center this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes. The good news is I've got two lines this weekend too, and some good ref's (better than me) to watch.

Changing subjects real quick. What is your opinion on this play? I was working the line (parents side of course). The attacker is on a break away. Enters the penalty area dribbling the ball. The keeper rushes to meet him, collects the ball, and his momentum takes out the attacker, literally just knocks him off his feet. The center ref calls a trip on the keeper and sets up a penalty kick. The defending team parents go beserk, claiming it is the keepers box, and there should not have been a foul called. From my perspective it looked like the keeper was playing the ball, but his momentum did cause the attacker to go down.

Thanks for all your help. It is this kind of community that keeps me coming back week after week.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by wardtc

What is your opinion on this play? I was working the line (parents side of course). The attacker is on a break away. Enters the penalty area dribbling the ball. The keeper rushes to meet him, collects the ball, and his momentum takes out the attacker, literally just knocks him off his feet. The center ref calls a trip on the keeper and sets up a penalty kick. The defending team parents go beserk, claiming it is the keepers box, and there should not have been a foul called. From my perspective it looked like the keeper was playing the ball, but his momentum did cause the attacker to go down.

Without seeing the play, it is really not possible for me to make a decision on the play, however, I will give you some information from the USSF Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game (2005 version) and you can reflect upon the play and come to your own conclusion in light of these clips.
(Also, if you don't have this book you definitely need to go to this link and download a copy, then read the entire thing! You will learn a ton.
http://www.ussoccer.com/laws/index.jsp.html )

(All colored emphasis is mine.)

12.1 WHAT IS A FOUL?
A foul is an unfair or unsafe action committed by a player against an opponent or the opposing team, on the field of play, while the ball is in play. Deliberate handling of the ball is committed against the opposing team, not against a particular opponent. If any of these three requirements is not met, the action is not a foul; however, the action can still be misconduct.
Under the terms of Law 12, the word "deliberate" in the sense of deliberately committing a foul does not mean that the player intentionally set out to kick, push, trip, hold or otherwise foul the opponent.
If that were so, the referee would have to be capable of reading a player's mind. Under Law 12, the referee makes a decision based upon what he or she sees a player actually do — the result of the player’s action — not upon what might be in the player's mind.

12.2 THE DIRECT FREE KICK FOULS
Ten offenses are described in Law 12 for which, if play is stopped as a result, the restart is a direct free kick (or a penalty kick if committed by a team within its own penalty area). These offenses are referred to as direct free kick fouls. They are divided into two groups:

1. Six actions (kick, trip, jump at, charge, strike, or push, including the attempt to kick, trip, or strike) for which the referee must evaluate how the act was committed; and

2. Four actions (making contact with an opponent during a tackle prior to contacting the ball, holding, spitting, deliberately handling the ball) for which the referee need only decide if the act occurred.

Referees should not punish actions that are accidental or inadvertent. In the case of the first group, the action becomes an offense only if the referee decides that it was committed carelessly, recklessly, or with excessive force. In the case of the second group, the action alone is an offense, no matter how it was committed.


12.3 CARELESS, RECKLESS, INVOLVING EXCESSIVE FORCE[/font]
"Careless" indicates that the player has not exercised due caution in making a play.
"Reckless" means that the player has made unnatural movements designed to intimidate an opponent or to gain an unfair advantage.
"Involving excessive force" means that the player has far exceeded the use of force necessary to make a fair play for the ball and has placed the opponent in considerable danger of bodily harm.
If the foul was careless, simply a miscalculation of strength or a stretch of judgment by the player who committed it, then it is a normal foul, requiring only a direct free kick (and possibly a stern talking-to).
If the foul was reckless, clearly outside the norm for fair play, then the referee must award the direct free kick and also caution the player for unsporting behavior, showing the yellow card. If the foul involved the use of excessive force, totally beyond the bounds of normal play, then the referee must send off the player for serious foul play or violent conduct, show the red card, and award the direct free kick to the opposing team.



12.4 TRIPPING
Tripping or attempting to trip an opponent includes those situations in which the player moves under the opponent and uses the body to upset or upend the opponent. This is also known as "bridging."
Referees must carefully distinguish an act of tripping from the fact of being tripped. Tripping or attempting to trip is an offense if it is clearly directed at an opponent and causes the opponent to falter or fall. Players, however, may trip over or fall over an opponent as a result of natural play and no infringement of the Law has been committed.


12.8 MAKING CONTACT WITH THE OPPONENT
Making contact with the opponent before the ball when making a tackle is unfair and should be penalized. However, the fact that contact with the ball was made first does not automatically mean that the tackle is fair. The declaration by a player that he or she has played the ball is irrelevant if, while tackling for the ball, the player carelessly, recklessly, or with excessive force commits any of the prohibited actions.
A foul committed while tackling an opponent with little or no concern for the safety of the opponent shall be cause for the player to be sent from the field and shown the red card for serious foul play.

[Nevadaref]

Okay, after examining what the Advice tells us, what can we conclude?

1. The parents are clueless. Big surprise there. The keeper has no more rights than any other player on the field no matter where the action is unless he is in possession of the ball (with his hands) and then he may not be charged by an opponent. That's the only extra protection a keeper gets from the Laws of the Game.

2. Whether the keeper was playing the ball or not doesn't matter. The contact can still be a foul even if he is playing the ball and even if he contacts his opponent after getting the ball. Furthermore, there is no requirement in the Laws of the Game that a player must "play the ball." He must merely be within playing distance of the ball and then may charge the opponent or shield the ball with his body.

3. However, just because there is contact that doesn't mean that a foul has occurred. The referee must decide that the player's action was either careless, reckless, or involved the use of excessive force. Otherwise, the push, kick, trip, or charge is not a foul. It is simply accidental or inadvertent contact. 12.2 tells us NOT to punish that kind of contact.

Therefore, the referee needs to decide if the keeper came out carelessly or recklessly. Did he slide and grab the ball and have his momentum carry him right through the opponent's feet cutting him down? If he did, then the penalty kick is a good call (see 12.8). He needs to demonstrate due caution for the safety of his opponent.

Or did the keeper come out forcefully, but in a controlled manner, and snatch the ball with a daring slide right in front of his opponent and then the opponent tripped or fell over him? If that is the case, then this should not have been a foul per 12.4 .

These are the tough decisions that they pay us the big bucks to make!

[wardtc]

Nevadaref,

Thanks for the link. I took two days to read it with my mouth falling to the floor! I certainly wish that this link was provided to us as we went through the training. It answers a lot of questions and generates a thousand more. In looking at this information, there was no foul by the keeper, the call was wrong.

I will study this more in depth and reflect on some games I've worked and some things I've seen (two players challanging deep in the corner, attacker following the ball in to the keeper, two players going to head the ball, A defender who trips over the foot of an attacker who just shot the ball, etc,etc ....).

Also I had the opportunity to work with a very experienced ref in a HS game on Tuesday, What a difference from what I do. It was like you mentioned before. Whistle, point, give the signal, move on. The guy was a pro. We talked a little about my USSF game during halftime. Same message. Don't tell them how to play, you're not the coach! Just make sure they have the right equipment, and begin calling what you see. If it keeps up, caution for persistant infringement. If the coach starts yelling, caution for dissent. If the fans go crazy, it's the coach's problem, stop the game until they deal with it. The one thing that he told me too was, I need to be less of a softy (sounds just like your reply). The concern is not that the game is stopped and the kids don't get to play, but that the kids learn if the fans don't behave there are consequences for misbehaving.

I've got a lot to learn. Thank you for taking the time to point me in the right direction. I'm sure we'll be writing a lot more.

[Nevadaref]

Fascinating how eye-opening it is when you learn what you previously did not know!
Welcome to the light.

Now go click on the User CP link, then edit options, and enable private messaging.

[refnrev]

ward,
I did a U-14 boys round robin yesterday so I can sympathize with you. I intentionally took the R in the 3rd game: (1.) because it was between rival communties with a bad history of problems at the high school level. I live in one of the communities and have officiated 3 sports in the other for years. (2) The parents in both places tend to go from sane and rational people to total idiots in a split second (remember I've officiated these fans for years), and (3) The coach of the visiting U-14 is a HS referee with whom I have officiated a couple of times... one who overstimates his knowledge and skill level greatly. He's the only coach I have ever had an assignor send me to a tournament to with explicit instructions to "shut the guy up." Great game yesterday. I called it tight at first to set the tone and early on looked a couple of kids squre in the eye and told them to "chill" which they immediately did. 0-0 at the half. Second half well played and evenly played. Home team scores on a breakaway a little over halfway through the period. Home team has a foul. The V coach starts whining wanting the advantage -- which, by the way, there was not. He questions why I didn't give it to him and implied I did not do so to give the H team a chance to set up their defense. Without ever looking at him I yelled, "Knock it off, _____." He replied, "I won't knock it off." I look at him, give him the stop sign and say, "That's it. Knock it off now or you're taking a walk." He knew that it was no idol threat -- that I meant it. What I want to say is that sometimes you have to stop things immediately. Players are your responsibility. Coaches are your responsibility. Fans can be at times, but I try to make them the coach's or the site person's responsibility.
Also, as someone else said earlier, don't try to coach them. Call your game as best you can. Make sure you are charge of the game. As for parents, they all want their kids to win. Sometimes they are just a little over the top.

[CecilOne]

One of the major myths in soccer is " it is the keepers box, and there should not have been a foul called."