Luke Kuechly Ejected

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Since the game of football began, at every level, something that is KNOWN by EVERY player; hitting an official is like hitting your MOTHER, and doing so causes consequences. There are no excuses, no allowances, it is something that is NEVER, EVER allowed.

On a second note, there is no valid reason to unpile opponents off a pile. If there is a problem with players on the pile, game officials will handle it. When a player CHOOSES to pull opponents ANYWHERE after the play is over, he accepts whatever consequences result. That too is nothing new, and something EVERY player, at every level, should understand.

If a player wants to protect a fellow player, he should buy him a big dog (but the dog won't be allowed on the field either)

Again, I don't think he hit him.

Also, Kuechly wasn't doing any of that. He got ripped off the pile, got up and was walking away from the situation.

[JRutledge]

I think the overall point you are missing here is it really does not matter if he hit him or not. He was acting like a jackazz and he got caught and did it to the wrong person.

An officiating mentor used to say to me, "You can roll the dice all you want, you just might crap out." He rolled the dice and he was around the wrong person. If that person had been you, he might have been lucky. If it was me, you might have been ejected. Not all officials feel the same about plays and situation and that is never going to change.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the overall point you are missing here is it really does not matter if he hit him or not. He was acting like a jackazz and he got caught and did it to the wrong person.

An officiating mentor used to say to me, "You can roll the dice all you want, you just might crap out." He rolled the dice and he was around the wrong person. If that person had been you, he might have been lucky. If it was me, you might have been ejected. Not all officials feel the same about plays and situation and that is never going to change.

Peace

He wasn't acting like a jackass. He was trying to walk away from the situation when he was grabbed from behind from a spot where a couple Packers were also standing. All he did was wrench his arm free. If he'd done anything more than that, I'd agree with you. It's not like he took a blind swing at anyone.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that he didn't do anything other than have a natural reaction to having his arm grabbed from behind. He freed himself and kept on walking away. It was a natural response to contact initiated by the official, completely non-malicious. To eject someone for a reaction like that is ridiculous.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

He wasn't acting like a jackass. He was trying to walk away from the situation when he was grabbed from behind from a spot where a couple Packers were also standing. All he did was wrench his arm free. If he'd done anything more than that, I'd agree with you. It's not like he took a blind swing at anyone.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that he didn't do anything other than have a natural reaction to having his arm grabbed from behind. He freed himself and kept on walking away. It was a natural response to contact initiated by the official, completely non-malicious. To eject someone for a reaction like that is ridiculous.

Well that is your opinion and you have a right to hold that opinion. And considering what people think is appropriate is subjective. And when you have an official at that level grabbing you and trying to pull you away from the situation and you still cannot stop, then I have no sympathy for your situation. If he had swung at a player and missed, he would have been ejected as well. So if that is ridiculous to you, because that standard certainly applies at the NCAA and NF(HS) levels. I am sure the NFL has been given guidelines for their players and tell their officials what they are to do in these situations. You can complain all you like, but that is the way it is and unless I hear something else, something tells me this ejection is going to stand or be supported.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Stokley DQ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPX7qleLtzc

[CT1]

I'm ready to see the "Locked" icon on this thread.....

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that is your opinion and you have a right to hold that opinion. And considering what people think is appropriate is subjective. And when you have an official at that level grabbing you and trying to pull you away from the situation and you still cannot stop, then I have no sympathy for your situation. If he had swung at a player and missed, he would have been ejected as well. So if that is ridiculous to you, because that standard certainly applies at the NCAA and NF(HS) levels. I am sure the NFL has been given guidelines for their players and tell their officials what they are to do in these situations. You can complain all you like, but that is the way it is and unless I hear something else, something tells me this ejection is going to stand or be supported.

Peace

He was walking away from the situation, and he continued to walk away after freeing himself from the person grabbing him. At least comment on the situation as it happened.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Stokley DQ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPX7qleLtzc

Good ejection. Not at all related to what happened here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

He was walking away from the situation, and he continued to walk away after freeing himself from the person grabbing him. At least comment on the situation as it happened.

So walking away means you can throw an elbow? And once again, if he had hit a player in the face, I guess your answer is that, "He was walking away, so that makes it OK" too?

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So walking away means you can throw an elbow? And once again, if he had hit a player in the face, I guess your answer is that, "He was walking away, so that makes it OK" too?

Peace

I don't view it as throwing an elbow. I view it as him wrenching his arm free.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I don't view it as throwing an elbow. I view it as him wrenching his arm free.

And it appears the officials on the game and the other people here do. Again, you have a right to your judgment. And when this kind of situation happens to you, you can give them a pass. If that happens to me, he will be hitting the showers. Especially in this day and age with video and everything else under scrutiny.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And it appears the officials on the game and the other people here do. Again, you have a right to your judgment. And when this kind of situation happens to you, you can give them a pass. If that happens to me, he will be hitting the showers. Especially in this day and age with video and everything else under scrutiny.

Peace

For comparison's sake, I think this should have resulted in an ejection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpcgP4sVUKo

Clearly intentional contact.


The Kuechly incident was just that, incidental contact (initiated by the official) with no malicious intent.

EDIT: Just to clarify, if the official had been next to or in front of Kuechly, I'd view this differently. The reason I oppose the flag and ejection is that he grabbed him from behind and Kuechly had every reason to want to free his arm and continue walking away. If he'd known it was an official, I'd say he shouldn't have let the official keep guiding him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

For comparison's sake, I think this should have resulted in an ejection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpcgP4sVUKo

Clearly intentional contact.


The Kuechly incident was just that, incidental contact (initiated by the official) with no malicious intent.

Again, players come in contact with officials all the time. It is different when you are reacting in anger like this Kuechly did. Jackson and the officials crossed paths and IMO was not contacting the official in anger. He might have done it on purpose, but the official was not watching him or having any conversation with him. And since there is no definition in football for incidental contact, you have the right once again to feel it is not a problem, but a player doing thing in anger does not absolve his action or reaction by those around him. He should have walked away and we are not having this discussion. Sorry, but often it is the reaction that gets caught.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, players come in contact with officials all the time. It is different when you are reacting in anger like this Kuechly did. Jackson and the officials crossed paths and IMO was not contacting the official in anger. He might have done it on purpose, but the official was not watching him or having any conversation with him. And since there is no definition in football for incidental contact, you have the right once again to feel it is not a problem, but a player doing thing in anger does not absolve his action or reaction by those around him. He should have walked away and we are not having this discussion. Sorry, but often it is the reaction that gets caught.

Peace

The point you're missing is that he was walking away the whole time.

[ump33]

Originally Posted by Sturno

This is the same video I saw while at the game yesterday and this was going down right in front of me...I was about 26 rows up.

What you should see on this video is:

1 - #21 of the Panthers pulling a Packer who happens to be holding Kuechly. The Packers player didn't rip him away from the pile, another Panther did indirectly. Just so we're both clear on what took place.

I did not notice that a Panther player was pulling the Packer player ... thanks for pointing it out

Originally Posted by Sturno

2 - Kuechly throws a punch at the Packer player when kicking his feet trying to get up as being dragged back....that swing was flagged by R Jeff Triplette, but you don't see it in the first video angle. The second Unsportsmanlike that got him ejected was the swing at the BJ.

Triplette did not throw is flag, he is tossing the football in to the U or C. You can clearly see that Triplette still has his flag in his pants (0:47 of video)

Originally Posted by Sturno

3 - As an official, you know full well the Back Judge was telling him to cool it and probably let the one arm swing and shove go without issue until he swung an arm and clocked him on the side of the head and at that point he had enough.

If there was contact, it was very minor at best. I do not know the exact wording of the rule/policy and I will defer judgment to the NFL Office

Originally Posted by Sturno

I guess I don't know how many swings you want to let this guy throw before you've seen enough.

And on a side note, the habit of opponents dragging and pulling each other off of these piles needs to be addressed. It's trickling down and happening at the lower levels and creates the inevitable shoving match every time.

Agree 100%

[Robert Goodman]

I looked again & again, and I still don't see any add'l cx by the player on the official; it was all the official on the player. Had the official been taller, he might've gotten an elbow in the head, but I can't see swinging my arm free from a pull like that from behind as either a personal foul or USC. BTW, if the player hadn't swung around, the official was about to trip him!