Luke Kuechly Ejected

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

lol. Now you're dismissing me as a fanboy? I'm the one being objective here. I can't speak to the Pats-Jets game as I didn't watch it. If I thought this was handled properly by the officials, I would say so. I said out loud tonight that the two officials made a great call on the catch that Harbaugh challenged halfway through the second quarter.

You are sounding like one. Did you know what was said? Did you know if there was more to the penalty than what you saw on the video? I cannot answer that myself and I am not saying what should or should not have happened in this case other than what was seen on the video. I am sure the official had the entire picture and made a judgment.

Originally Posted by hbk314

I'm more of a baseball guy and am a bigger participant in baseball discussions, usually in defense of umpires against people who don't know/understand the rules. Part of being objective is being able to acknowledge when an official makes an error as well as being able to compliment a particularly good call or bit of situation handling.

What is your point? I have to agree with you to be considered objective? And you say that you are a baseball guy, but you must not have read many of my comments about baseball umpires on the baseball side. I have often criticized umpires in MLB for making bad mistakes on routine situations. But no one fires them so they keep making those mistakes without the same level of consequences that most pro guys have to face. And in my opinion on this situation, the official was doing his job and the player did not let it go. Shame on him and he got ejected. Trust me, life will go on.

Originally Posted by hbk314

In my opinion, the decision to flag and eject Kuechly here was outrageous. He had a natural reaction to being grabbed from behind, and it's debatable whether the official needed to intervene at all. My understanding of the other ejection today was that he swatted at an official's hand who was trying to guide him away from a situation. The way I've read, it seems like that would be a justifiable ejection. But I can't accurately compare the two without having seen both incidents.

And it is great that you have an opinion. It is my opinion the player should have acted better and walked away from the situation. And if players act like that all the time, why don't they act that way when their teammates grab them? Something tells me he knew exactly who was grabbing him and thought his actions were going to be ignored. Well he ran into the wrong guy now didn't he. Life is full of lessons and this is one for that player.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Since we don't know what was being said at the time, I'll grant the player the least favorable assumption, i.e. that he said something insulting to the person behind him who was grabbing him. It is inconceivable in that crowd that the player would have known that that person was an official. So under the worst conditions, it's an ordinary unsportsmanlike conduct, which unless it was a repetition of previously penalized or warned-against behavior that game should not have incurred a DQ. The letter of NFL's rule against intentionally contacting officials was not met either, because the official contacted the player rather than vice versa.

[Sturno]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Luke Kuechly ejected for personal foul penalty - NFL.com

The above "story" has a video of the incident.

To me as a non-official, this looks absolutely terrible on the part of the officiating crew. Not only did they not flag the Packers player for ripping him off the pile, they ejected him for merely breaking the hold of someone who grabbed him from behind.

Am I wrong here?

This is the same video I saw while at the game yesterday and this was going down right in front of me...I was about 26 rows up.

What you should see on this video is:

1 - #21 of the Panthers pulling a Packer who happens to be holding Kuechly. The Packers player didn't rip him away from the pile, another Panther did indirectly. Just so we're both clear on what took place.

2 - Kuechly throws a punch at the Packer player when kicking his feet trying to get up as being dragged back....that swing was flagged by R Jeff Triplette, but you don't see it in the first video angle. The second Unsportsmanlike that got him ejected was the swing at the BJ.

3 - As an official, you know full well the Back Judge was telling him to cool it and probably let the one arm swing and shove go without issue until he swung an arm and clocked him on the side of the head and at that point he had enough.

I guess I don't know how many swings you want to let this guy throw before you've seen enough.

And on a side note, the habit of opponents dragging and pulling each other off of these piles needs to be addressed. It's trickling down and happening at the lower levels and creates the inevitable shoving match every time.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Sturno

I guess I don't know how many swings you want to let this guy throw before you've seen enough.

And on a side note, the habit of opponents dragging and pulling each other off of these piles needs to be addressed. It's trickling down and happening at the lower levels and creates the inevitable shoving match every time.

Agree wholeheartedly, on both counts. A player striking an official (anywhere, anyhow) is equivelant to someone striking their MOTHER, and is NEVER excused (anywhere, anyhow).

Pulling opponents off the pile is NONSENSE. First time (at least) is a stern talking to, if it repeats, or is bad enough the first time, 15 yards. It is a trickle down from the professional game and shouldn't be tolerated.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I dunno about you JRut but when I'm grabbed from behind I don't react well. You can't expect players to "just stop" when they are frustrated. Football is full of this type of reaction -- if the ref wades in there and gets involved he better expect that this might happen.

And if you don't react well when an official tells you to get off the pile and grabs you... you see the result.

[hbk314]

Where's all this talk about striking an official coming from? He rotated his arm in an attempt to get whoever was grabbing him to release him. From both angles shown it's clear he wasn't even close to contacting the official's head, much less "clocking" him.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Where's all this talk about striking an official coming from? He rotated his arm in an attempt to get whoever was grabbing him to release him. From both angles shown it's clear he wasn't even close to contacting the official's head, much less "clocking" him.

I see one angle. He did not have to necessarily hit him in the head. He still might have hit him.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Sturno

1 - #21 of the Panthers pulling a Packer who happens to be holding Kuechly. The Packers player didn't rip him away from the pile, another Panther did indirectly. Just so we're both clear on what took place

I see what you're saying, but for whatever reason, the Packers player's grip on Kuechly made it seem a lot more violent than the way the Panthers player pulled him away from the pile. Someone could easily get hurt being ripped off a pile that way. I don't think it's horribly out of line for him to try to defend himself (not sure I would call that throwing a punch). After he went down, he got up and was walking away. He didn't take a swing at anyone.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I see one angle. He did not have to necessarily hit him in the head. He still might have hit him.

Peace

There's two angles shown in the video if you watch it all the way through.

His hand may have come to rest on the officials shoulder. That's not "striking" the official considering the circumstances. I was responding directly to Sturno's claim that Kuechly "clocked" the official in the side of the head.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

There's two angles shown in the video if you watch it all the way through.

His hand may have come to rest on the officials shoulder. That's not "striking" the official considering the circumstances. I was responding directly to Sturno's claim that Kuechly "clocked" the official in the side of the head.

I did see the videos and I do think the officials has hit. Now was he hit very hard? No, but you do not have to be hit and whether he hit him or not might not have been the actual issues. Once again, the officials I am sure was talking to him and there were words as well as actions that played a role.

Peace

[Sturno]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I see what you're saying, but for whatever reason, the Packers player's grip on Kuechly made it seem a lot more violent than the way the Panthers player pulled him away from the pile. Someone could easily get hurt being ripped off a pile that way. I don't think it's horribly out of line for him to try to defend himself (not sure I would call that throwing a punch). After he went down, he got up and was walking away. He didn't take a swing at anyone.

He took a swing at 89 of the Packers when he was getting dragged backwards, and he just missed landing it and that was what got Triplette to throw his flag first. Look for more video of it. He was staring at 15 yards before he ever got on his feet...

Let's play this game. You find yourself with some buddies in a skirmish in the parking lot of a local sports bar. Cops arrive and you happen to elbow a cop mistaking him for one of "the other guys". Guess who's going downtown.

How about we look at Kuechly not throwing elbows and acting like an adult instead of defending a guy that met every condition/actions for ejection? Take your Carolina blue glasses off and see this from an outside perspective. Accusing the official of wrongdoing by trying to separate him and get him away from the action isn't appropriate either. Can you imagine how these games would get out of control if they don't get in there? Kuechly acted like a spoiled 6 year old and paid the price.

[Adam]

Lesson #1: know who you're swinging at before you take a swing.
Lesson #2: keep your freaking head about you. There's no reason we can't expect these guys to act like adults instead of 9 year olds who don't get their way.

[JRutledge]

Cris Carter got ejected from a game when he was mad about a call on the sideline, he spiked the ball and hit the official. It was clear CC did not purposely hit the official with the ball, but he still hit him. He was ejected from that game and fined as well if my memory works properly. Because if Kuechly hat hit a player in the helmet, I would say the very same thing.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Sturno

He took a swing at 89 of the Packers when he was getting dragged backwards, and he just missed landing it and that was what got Triplette to throw his flag first. Look for more video of it. He was staring at 15 yards before he ever got on his feet...

Let's play this game. You find yourself with some buddies in a skirmish in the parking lot of a local sports bar. Cops arrive and you happen to elbow a cop mistaking him for one of "the other guys". Guess who's going downtown.

How about we look at Kuechly not throwing elbows and acting like an adult instead of defending a guy that met every condition/actions for ejection? Take your Carolina blue glasses off and see this from an outside perspective. Accusing the official of wrongdoing by trying to separate him and get him away from the action isn't appropriate either. Can you imagine how these games would get out of control if they don't get in there? Kuechly acted like a spoiled 6 year old and paid the price.

I'm by no means a Carolina fan. I don't consider him trying to shake the grip of someone grabbing him to be throwing an elbow.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by hbk314

So because in a lot of cases players behave a certain way, even though this player didn't, you think what happened is acceptable?

Since the game of football began, at every level, something that is KNOWN by EVERY player; hitting an official is like hitting your MOTHER, and doing so causes consequences. There are no excuses, no allowances, it is something that is NEVER, EVER allowed.

On a second note, there is no valid reason to unpile opponents off a pile. If there is a problem with players on the pile, game officials will handle it. When a player CHOOSES to pull opponents ANYWHERE after the play is over, he accepts whatever consequences result. That too is nothing new, and something EVERY player, at every level, should understand.

If a player wants to protect a fellow player, he should buy him a big dog (but the dog won't be allowed on the field either)