Can offens grab facemask

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Adam

Ball carriers will often stiff-arm a defender on his face without grasping it.

I'm sure thats what the first two pics show, a stiff arm, the other two pics show the defender seemingly being pulled to the ground by who knows what. If you don't know what you don't call nuttin.

[HLin NC]

So, without solid evidence of why the defender is going down no official will call it a facemask. Makes sense. Thanks.

Without solid evidence that a pitcher balked, the first baseman dropped the ball, the ball hit the batter, would you rule a balk, safe, award first base?

Of course the potential offender is Steve Smith so anything is possible

[Sturno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7682UPN15us



Here's the video....and if none of the deep coverage officials threw anything on it, my guess is it wasn't the facemask he grabbed, maybe under his chin/neck and shoved off...?

From that angle...you have to have nothing....hence, my signature - "Assumption Is The Mother Of All Screw-ups....."

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Sturno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7682UPN15us



Here's the video....and if none of the deep coverage officials threw anything on it, my guess is it wasn't the facemask he grabbed, maybe under his chin/neck and shoved off...?

From that angle...you have to have nothing....hence, my signature - "Assumption Is The Mother Of All Screw-ups....."

Interesting. In BB we strive to make decisions while stopped (not always successfully). In football the officials have to make decisions while moving. I guess that's why replay hit football before it hit baseball. Among other things.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Interesting. In BB we strive to make decisions while stopped (not always successfully). In football the officials have to make decisions while moving. I guess that's why replay hit football before it hit baseball. Among other things.

Baseball is one of the rare sports where you can do things while standing. Not the case in many other sports like football and basketball.

And in this video I see nothing that stands out as a foul. For one, we cannot see the actual contact with the stiff arm. Hard to make any concrete decision when the officials on the field saw this play life and from better angles.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

I can count on one fist the number of times I've seen a ball carrier flagged for grabbing an opponent's facemask.

Just saw this called in the Oklahoma/West Virginia game early in the 4th quarter.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by APG

Just saw this called in the Oklahoma/West Virginia game early in the 4th quarter.

I though that was a pretty bad call. Didn't even grab it.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I though that was a pretty bad call. Didn't even grab it.

The only thing that MATTERS is what the covering official SAW.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The only thing that MATTERS is what the covering official SAW.

And he didn't see it correctly, in my opinion.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by OKREF

And he didn't see it correctly, in my opinion.

Opinions are like anal orifices, everyone has one and it's a little different than everyone elses. On a football field, the covering official's "opinion" is the ONLY one that matters (in NFHS games).

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The only thing that MATTERS is what the covering official SAW.

Not in college football.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

On a football field, the covering official's "opinion" is the ONLY one that matters (in NFHS games).

Oklahoma and West Virginia are not playing in NFHS games, last I checked.

[APG]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The only thing that MATTERS is what the covering official SAW.

Originally Posted by ajmc

Opinions are like anal orifices, everyone has one and it's a little different than everyone elses. On a football field, the covering official's "opinion" is the ONLY one that matters (in NFHS games).

I guess I'm a little confused about what you're trying to convey here. If we have this attitude about discussing plays, we might as well shut down this forum or any discussion group.

Nothing wrong with discussing plays and even saying an official missed a play (which may have happened with the facemask play in question).

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by APG

I guess I'm a little confused about what you're trying to convey here. If we have this attitude about discussing plays, we might as well shut down this forum or any discussion group.

Nothing wrong with discussing plays and even saying an official missed a play (which may have happened with the facemask play in question).

The intent is to suggest, as I presume most officials clearly understand, is that is that an officials judgment call is based on what is ACTUALLY seen, rather than what might be suspected, possible or even apparent.

An official judging he didn't see a hand grasping a facemask, or helmet openting, doesn't mean it didn't happen, only that the official didn't see it happen. As a n official we don't have the luxury of presuming. Absent any constructive suggestion (rule knowledge, mechanics and positioning advice or some material instruction that might benefit future calls) there doesn't seem to any real value in complaining about something someome else did, or didn't, actually see (without benefit of detailed review and assessment)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

The intent is to suggest, as I presume most officials clearly understand, is that is that an officials judgment call is based on what is ACTUALLY seen, rather than what might be suspected, possible or even apparent.

An official judging he didn't see a hand grasping a facemask, or helmet openting, doesn't mean it didn't happen, only that the official didn't see it happen. As a n official we don't have the luxury of presuming. Absent any constructive suggestion (rule knowledge, mechanics and positioning advice or some material instruction that might benefit future calls) there doesn't seem to any real value in complaining about something someome else did, or didn't, actually see (without benefit of detailed review and assessment)

I think his point was, that if you have that attitude, you can dismiss every single thread with that logic.