The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 29, 2013, 04:36pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
NFL - Play over when Helmet Removed

The bigger story from the game should be the ridiculousness of using replay to determine when exactly a helmet came off to take a TD off the board.

I understand not allowing a guy to keep running after it flies off, but logically you should get to finish your fall to the ground before the play's dead.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 29, 2013, 04:51pm
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
The bigger story from the game should be the ridiculousness of using replay to determine when exactly a helmet came off to take a TD off the board.

I understand not allowing a guy to keep running after it flies off, but logically you should get to finish your fall to the ground before the play's dead.
By rule, the ball is dead as soon as the ball carrier's helmet comes off. Doesn't matter if he's running upright, if he's in mid-flight after jumping, or if he's "falling to the ground" as you put it.

The rule is there to protect the ball carrier... he's got 11 opponents whose job is to hit him and bring him to the ground.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 29, 2013, 05:20pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
By rule, the ball is dead as soon as the ball carrier's helmet comes off. Doesn't matter if he's running upright, if he's in mid-flight after jumping, or if he's "falling to the ground" as you put it.

The rule is there to protect the ball carrier... he's got 11 opponents whose job is to hit him and bring him to the ground.
Logically the TD should have counted. It should never come down to using replay.

I understand they got it right as far as the rule is written. It's stupid the way the rule allowed the TD to be taken away.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
And yet, there are some who wonder if adding Instant Replay to the High School game might be a good idea. Just like some really problematic laws, eliminating the "judgment factor" and writing rules (or laws) so tight common sense is not allowed to be a factor, inevitably produces endless argument.

Last edited by ajmc; Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 07:08pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:54am
I miss being on the floor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hartford, WI
Posts: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
And yet, there are some who wonder if adding Instant Replay to the High School game might be a good idea. Just like some really problematic laws, eliminating the "judgment factor" and writing rules (or laws) so tight common sense is not allowed to be a factor, inevitably produces endless argument.
When a kid fumbles the ball at the three yard line, and it's called a touchdown on the field, that's something that can and should be fixed by replay, regardless of what level it's at.

A friend and I had a conversation tonight about the Bell play and how common sense should factor in, and my question to him was, how do you define common sense in the rules?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 05:31am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 View Post
When a kid fumbles the ball at the three yard line, and it's called a touchdown on the field, that's something that can and should be fixed by replay, regardless of what level it's at.

A friend and I had a conversation tonight about the Bell play and how common sense should factor in, and my question to him was, how do you define common sense in the rules?
It would obviously be tough to account for every possible scenario in the rule book. This is one scenario I think needs adjusting. The way it played out, the TD should have counted.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:05am
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,732
The ball is dead immediately when the helmet comes off, the ball wasn't across the goal line when it came off. You spot the ball where the helmet came off. It's pretty easy.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:11am
I miss being on the floor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hartford, WI
Posts: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
The ball is dead immediately when the helmet comes off, the ball wasn't across the goal line when it came off. You spot the ball where the helmet came off. It's pretty easy.
And that's kind of what I was saying...it's easy because it's an absolute. There's not a lot of subjectivity to that rule. It's black and white...either the ball was across the goal line or it wasn't.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:33am
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffler3492 View Post
When a kid fumbles the ball at the three yard line, and it's called a touchdown on the field, that's something that can and should be fixed by replay, regardless of what level it's at.

A friend and I had a conversation tonight about the Bell play and how common sense should factor in, and my question to him was, how do you define common sense in the rules?
So now they'll need to put cameras on the goal line, I suppose. And hire replay officials, too.

Really?

What about the other 13 weeks of the season, including the other 4 knockout rounds? Going to do it there, too?

Let's just change how the game is played or officiated for one game because it's played at Camp Randall and is on TV.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:03pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
The ball is dead immediately when the helmet comes off, the ball wasn't across the goal line when it came off. You spot the ball where the helmet came off. It's pretty easy.
I understand that. Common sense would say that he should have been allowed to finish falling.

At any point, it's not something instant replay should ever be involved in. Especially since the booth had already approved the TD before changing its mind.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
A simple, and graphic, negative definition for bureaucracy is; "When established rules or regulations come in direct conflict with common sense, following the rule rather than reason the objective."
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:27pm
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
I understand that. Common sense would say that he should have been allowed to finish falling.

At any point, it's not something instant replay should ever be involved in. Especially since the booth had already approved the TD before changing its mind.
Common sense says it's black and white. The play ends as soon as the helmet comes. It's all about player safety. I'm not advocating instant replay in the high school game at all.

All scores are reviewed in pro and college anyway. Ruling on the spot of the ball when a helmet comes off is no different then overturning a TD when a player was down prior to crossing the goal line.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:49pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Common sense says it's black and white. The play ends as soon as the helmet comes. It's all about player safety. I'm not advocating instant replay in the high school game at all.

All scores are reviewed in pro and college anyway. Ruling on the spot of the ball when a helmet comes off is no different then overturning a TD when a player was down prior to crossing the goal line.
Ending the play when he's in mid-air versus when he hits the ground has zero impact on player safety and nothing to do with the intent of the rule. Common sense = TD on that particular play.

The rule was put in to you don't have Jason Witten running another 15 yards down the field with no helmet with people trying to tackle him, not to screw a team out of a TD when a guy's going to the ground and his helmet comes off a split second before the ball breaks the plane.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:53pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Put your helmet on more tightly, and this doesn't happen.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:54pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Put your helmet on more tightly, and this doesn't happen.
It was a pretty brutal hit. I'm not sure how much you can fault Bell.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MLB umpire has friendship bracelet removed BEAREF Baseball 23 Sun Aug 26, 2012 08:44pm
Fan Removed Steven Tyler Basketball 10 Mon Apr 28, 2008 07:28am
Balk/Ball in Glove then removed?? cshs81 Baseball 2 Sun Apr 27, 2008 02:28pm
player removed from game nlsoftball Baseball 1 Wed Jun 16, 2004 08:32am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1