End of Giants-Redskins game

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tmagan

A way to solve this problem, in the future, is to use both arms to signal second or third down, why? Because 'first down' is always signaled with one arm. It is something I always saw the late Gordon McCarter do. Either that or late in a half, always have the referee signal the down with an open microphone.

People say they never saw this before. Something like this happened to Bob McElwee about a decade ago in a Bears game at the University of Illinois stadium while Soldier Field was undergoing renovations.

I don't think the problem here was the signal, as Triplette was signalling like a crazy man. The problem was that one official who had a good view thought it was a first down, and the other didn't. (The secondary problem was one official marking the ball at a point where a first down would have been gained - but the umpire taking the spot from the other official). The "fix" here is not to change mechanics ... but to measure when it's really this close - or alternately - when Triplette sees the chains moving, stopping play.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't think the problem here was the signal, as Triplette was signalling like a crazy man. The problem was that one official who had a good view thought it was a first down, and the other didn't. (The secondary problem was one official marking the ball at a point where a first down would have been gained - but the umpire taking the spot from the other official). The "fix" here is not to change mechanics ... but to measure when it's really this close - or alternately - when Triplette sees the chains moving, stopping play.

I agree completely.

If I'm remembering correctly, I think they ultimately got the spot right, and it should have been short. But it should have been measured, especially after the confusion over the down.

Triplette basically threw the chain crew under the bus when in reality he's ultimately the one responsible. That's what bothers me most about this situation. Like the Wisconsin-ASU situation early in the year, we have a clear error by an officiating crew that clearly impacts the game, potentially changing the final score. In both cases it should have been an easy fix for the officials, and in both cases, the officials failed to fix the problem.

Errors in judgment calls will happen, they're still frustrating to see, but they happen. Administrative errors like these that happen in relatively relaxed action are a lot harder to let slide.

[tjones1]

The way Al was going nuts over it at the end of the game makes me believe he had some cash on the game!

It's clear the HL signaled for the chains to move... but then it looks like he puts 3 fingers up to show 3rd down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I agree completely.

If I'm remembering correctly, I think they ultimately got the spot right, and it should have been short. But it should have been measured, especially after the confusion over the down.

Triplette basically threw the chain crew under the bus when in reality he's ultimately the one responsible. That's what bothers me most about this situation. Like the Wisconsin-ASU situation early in the year, we have a clear error by an officiating crew that clearly impacts the game, potentially changing the final score. In both cases it should have been an easy fix for the officials, and in both cases, the officials failed to fix the problem.

Errors in judgment calls will happen, they're still frustrating to see, but they happen. Administrative errors like these that happen in relatively relaxed action are a lot harder to let slide.

Needing a quick mental break, I scanned through your 100+ posts. Over 90 of them have to do with perceived errors made by professional or other high level officials.

Do you have any other purpose here? I'm sincerely curious. Do you officiate at all?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

Needing a quick mental break, I scanned through your 100+ posts. Over 90 of them have to do with perceived errors made by professional or other high level officials.

Do you have any other purpose here? I'm sincerely curious. Do you officiate at all?

Follow your intuition...and please don't tell him there is a basketball forum.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Rich

Needing a quick mental break, I scanned through your 100+ posts. Over 90 of them have to do with perceived errors made by professional or other high level officials.

Do you have any other purpose here? I'm sincerely curious. Do you officiate at all?

I'm hardly nitpicking. I'm discussing major errors in administration or calls where there's a difference of opinion like the Gronkowski play.

I do officiate baseball.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Rich

Needing a quick mental break, I scanned through your 100+ posts. Over 90 of them have to do with perceived errors made by professional or other high level officials.

Do you have any other purpose here? I'm sincerely curious. Do you officiate at all?

To followup:

The discussions that I participate in are ones that are of interest to me. I always like to get an officials perspective on things, especially if it's a sport I don't officiate myself.

I umpire baseball over the summer and just recently started doing in-season high school ball. I spend a lot of time reading on here and on Umpire Empire, among other sites, in an effort to better myself as an official and better my understanding of the game as a whole.

I don't officiate football, and I have no plans to officiate football, but I do still have an interest in rules and an official's perspective as to why things happen the way that they do. There have been calls I've disagreed with that, when explained from an official's point of view, made sense.

I realize the the bulk of my posts are in threads about officiating controversies, but I do read the other threads. I'm not going to post if I don't have anything to add to the discussion. I don't think I've been unreasonable, with maybe an exception early on in the WI-ASU thread. I'm certainly not on here to mindlessly bash officials.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hbk314

To followup:

The discussions that I participate in are ones that are of interest to me. I always like to get an officials perspective on things, especially if it's a sport I don't officiate myself.

I umpire baseball over the summer and just recently started doing in-season high school ball. I spend a lot of time reading on here and on Umpire Empire, among other sites, in an effort to better myself as an official and better my understanding of the game as a whole.

I don't officiate football, and I have no plans to officiate football, but I do still have an interest in rules and an official's perspective as to why things happen the way that they do. There have been calls I've disagreed with that, when explained from an official's point of view, made sense.

I realize the the bulk of my posts are in threads about officiating controversies, but I do read the other threads. I'm not going to post if I don't have anything to add to the discussion. I don't think I've been unreasonable, with maybe an exception early on in the WI-ASU thread. I'm certainly not on here to mindlessly bash officials.

The vibe of this post...of wanting to discuss and learn does not match the vibe set forth by claiming that "NFL officials are doing a fantastic job of embarrassing themselves in primetime games this year" and other previous posts in others threads that you have made.

[bisonlj]

I don't think this was an issue of measuring vs. not measuring. The 46 was the line to gain and the ball was obviously placed well short of the 46. There was no reason to stop the clock to measure. The reason to stop the clock was to correct the H and put the chains back where they belong based on the spot. I do question the spot since the L appeared to have the 46 but ceded to the H for some reason.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

I can understand why Tripplette didn't stop the game to give them a free timeout, but, this whole mess could have been avoided if he would have went with the LJ. I always look to the LJ for determining if it's a first down. If he's giving me a first down, as Referee, I'm giving the signal and we are moving the chains.

Mike Pereira was on a national radio show last night and they were talking about this situation. I just caught the last couple of minutes of it. He said that in the NFL, the HL should not move the chains at all until the R signals to him that it is a first down, which didn't happen since Tripplette was signaling third down before the snap.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by APG

The vibe of this post...of wanting to discuss and learn does not match the vibe set forth by claiming that "NFL officials are doing a fantastic job of embarrassing themselves in primetime games this year" and other previous posts in others threads that you have made.

There was probably a better way to put it, but there have been several high-profile mistakes (or perceived mistakes) in primetime games in the last few weeks. And to be fair, it's hard to imagine a more embarrassing chain of events than Sunday night.

[ajmc]

Most of us have learned long ago, no matter how hard you suck on a whistle, that damn "tweet" is NEVER coming back. All it takes is an instant of distraction or loss of focus to create a mistake. What matters then, is how well we deal with our mistake.

Most on-field mistakes generate a little scar tissue we carry forward FOREVER to help prevent us from repeating the mistake. Other than that memory, there's little else of value to bother carrying forward, so the smart thing to do, is reset your focus and concentration and snap the ball for the next play.

Next week you'll have another opportunity to work your FIRST perfect game.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I agree completely.

Errors in judgment calls will happen, they're still frustrating to see, but they happen. Administrative errors like these that happen in relatively relaxed action are a lot harder to let slide.

This may shock you, but the expectation that every officials action will ALWAYS be absolutely perfect, is an illusion. Although the officials we watch on Sundays are remarkably consistent and correct, they are still pursuing perfection, just like the rest of us (albeit likely from a little closer).

When they miss something, it's still called a "mistake" and although much rarer than at other levels, mistakes, life "stuff", happen. The remedy of course is to remain composed, review what's transpired, make whatever adjustments are necessary to get the situation right and then learn from the experience and add it to the pile of other mistakes you will endeavor never to repeat.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by ajmc

This may shock you, but the expectation that every officials action will ALWAYS be absolutely perfect, is an illusion. Although the officials we watch on Sundays are remarkably consistent and correct, they are still pursuing perfection, just like the rest of us (albeit likely from a little closer).

When they miss something, it's still called a "mistake" and although much rarer than at other levels, mistakes, life "stuff", happen. The remedy of course is to remain composed, review what's transpired, make whatever adjustments are necessary to get the situation right and then learn from the experience and add it to the pile of other mistakes you will endeavor never to repeat.

How would that shock me? In an ideal world every call would be perfect. Obviously that's not a realistic expectation. I agree with you.