why cant.......

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by PSU213

First of all, in her original post she did not specify if this was her high school team. I believe she has since clarified that it is indeed her high school's team, and as I said multiple times in previous posts, I believe that in high school an individual is able to make their own decision about whether or not to try out. In short the answer is yes, I believe she should be able to try out.

My only point of contention is I believe that at the youth/grade school level the coach, principal, league, etc. should have some power to not allow someone to try out if there is a clear health risk to that individual, and that means it could be within reason to exclude girls from certain "collision sports." If they do exclude individuals they should have to provide a compelling reason for doing so. There is a big difference between not wanting girls to play in general versus reserving the "right" to exclude a girl because of a higher risk of injury. Again, once you reach the high school level it should be entirely up the individual to make the choice to participate. [/B]

I can live with that.

But I still think that imposing such a philosophy at the youth/grade school level would open the school/association to the possibility of being sued.

[PSU213]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I can live with that.

But I still think that imposing such a philosophy at the youth/grade school level would open the school/association to the possibility of being sued.

Sued for that and a zillion other things! Anyway, I'm glad we have reached some common ground on the issue. Hopefully we can get back to officiating issues.

[TXMike]

Just to be clear on this...I never said she should not be ALLOWED to "try out". I did say she should NOT try out and I still think she should find something more productive to do with her time. If she is the stud athlete that is suggested she might be then I imagine she has some real potential in other sports, ones that she might have a future in. That is where she should concentrate her efforts. She might also try to lose the whiny attitude (look at her posts on the softball board) suggesting that officials cost her team a game.

[jfurdell]

Originally posted by TXMike
I did say she should NOT try out and I still think she should find something more productive to do with her time. If she is the stud athlete that is suggested she might be then I imagine she has some real potential in other sports, ones that she might have a future in. That is where she should concentrate her efforts.

As she said, she wants to play football. I officiate too many games where the kids are only playing because their parents want them to, or who wrongly think they *do* have a future in the game. I'd welcome anyone who comes to the field actively wanting to play, whether or not they have a chance to ultimately be a star.

If she enjoys the game enough to try out, I don't think anyone could sincerely suggest a *more* productive use of her time.

[TXMike]

A "more" productive use would be honing skills she would use in a sport she has a potential future in and football ain't it. Not now, not in 10 years, not in 20 years.

[cowbyfan1]

TXMike I see your point but that is the wrong attitude because we would not be able to call any football, baseball or any other sports at any level as there is always someone that does not have what it takes to make it at that or a future higher level. Look at all the Pros that were drafted and never played a down in the NFL. I guess they were full of unproductive time spent over the past 10 or 15 years playing all that football to not to be able to make it at the next level. Just because she will more than likely not play in collage or the pros, does not mean it is unproductive for her to play or even to try and play. We learn life lessons thru sports as kids even if we never get off the practice field.

Heck Mike if you never call an NFL game does that make your time as an official unproductive? I would expect not, reguardless if that is your goal or not.

[TXMike]

In this kid's case...she is apparently a gifted athlete. She is not like most of us. I would say the same thing to a boy who is a particularly gifted athlete in a certain sport other than football. He should not "waste" his time in football.

In the case of a girl trying to play on a boy's team, it is even more so.

There are differences between males and females. God made it that way for a reason. Until folks get back to recognizing those natural differences and until people get these PC ideas out of their head, we are going to continue having these problems.

[Sleeper]

TXMike,

The last thing I could be accused of is being PC, but if she wants to try, let her try. If she is tough enough to keep getting up after getting continually knocked on her can and can compete at the same level as the boys, let her. Let her get it out of her system. Sometimes, I think the best education comes from being given exactly what you ask for.

[TXMike]

That is a great point as far as the lesson learning goes. My concerns though are the costs to the system for her learning this lesson, plus the costs to her (mentally and physically) for learning it.

[Sleeper]

Point taken. If she wants to play, she also assumes the burden of the risks of doing so, mentally, physically and emotionally. I am glad I have boys.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by STEVED21


But you have to be of a certain race to understand that race or know when a derogatory statement is or is not allowed to be used??

Who said "you had to be of a certain race" to understand a derogetory statement? You need to go back and read that debate if you feel that way. What I said, is the fact that I am of a certain race, I tend to understand better that let us say a white male. Or someone that has never been called that word a day in their life. And please do not tell me that the N-word applies to anyone of any race. Save that discussion. Why might I have a different perspective than most here that are obviously white, you might ask? Because I spend more of my "free time" with people that look like me and are of a similar culture background as I am. Unless you are "kicking it" on a regular basis with Blacks, I would not expect you to understand or share a perspective on a word that is derogatory towards people that look like me. This is also factoring that most officials that I come in contact with or I officiate with, are much older than I and much whiter than myself.

Back to this issue, unless you have a daughter that is playing football (according to your logic), then I guess no one here would understand what it takes for a female to play. But then again, I do not care what it takes, that is for them to deal with.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Did it ever occur to anyone, that she is not good enough to play? If we put the gender issue aside, does it ever occur that she is too small or not strong enough for the position she wishes to play? When you get to the HS level, players get cut all the time. Mainly because they are not fit for the sport and schools have only so many spots that they can provide a uniform and accomidations for players. Maybe she is just not good enough?

I wanted to play basketball, but I was too short to play in the post, not fast enough to be a point guard and did not shoot well enough to get playing time. Maybe she is not big enough, strong enough or fast enough. That would not be the first time a young boy got cut for the team. Why is this any different for a boy?

Peace

[Sleeper]

I think that is my point. Let her try out. If she is good enough to stay and compete, then she deserves to be there. If she is not good enough, then the situation will take care of itself and she will get cut like any other player that didn't have the ability to make the team. Her parent's decision is a seperate issue. I am glad I have boys, as I have no idea how I would handle this.

[STEVED21]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Who said "you had to be of a certain race" to understand a derogetory statement? You need to go back and read that debate if you feel that way. What I said, is the fact that I am of a certain race, I tend to understand better that let us say a white male. Or someone that has never been called that word a day in their life. And please do not tell me that the N-word applies to anyone of any race. Save that discussion. Why might I have a different perspective than most here that are obviously white, you might ask? Because I spend more of my "free time" with people that look like me and are of a similar culture background as I am. Unless you are "kicking it" on a regular basis with Blacks, I would not expect you to understand or share a perspective on a word that is derogatory towards people that look like me. This is also factoring that most officials that I come in contact with or I officiate with, are much older than I and much whiter than myself.

Back to this issue, unless you have a daughter that is playing football (according to your logic), then I guess no one here would understand what it takes for a female to play. But then again, I do not care what it takes, that is for them to deal with.

Peace

It's YOUR logic not mine. Reread your post quoted again below.

"Unless you are "kicking it" on a regular basis with Blacks, I would not expect you to understand or share a perspective on a word that is derogatory towards people that look like me."

[JMN]

Originally posted by JRutledge

>>> Why is it that this turned into a race issue? This has nothing to do with race. Check out the original message. Rut, save your "opinions" on race for another forum. I don't really give a rat's arse if you or I or anyone else is green, white, black, or pink!! This is for a brotherhood (that means unite, not divide) of officials. We all look and think differently, but we're united by the common bond of officiating. You don't have to love everyone or agree with them, just don't let this forum become your soapbox for your personal issues.

Peace [/B]

>>>> Go back and read Neil's post. This is exactly what he said and it's water under the bridge. AND, if you don't care, why the heck are you commenting on it in the first place??

RUT, Get a clue, please!