Touchback or not? (NCAA)

[jTheUmp]

NCAA Rules:

Team A's free kick:
1) bounces at the B-5
2) hits the Referee who is standing 2 yards deep in the end zone
3) rebounds (without touching in the end zone) back to the B-1.

Situation A: ball is declared dead there when no player attempts to secure it.
Situation B: Ball is recovered by Team A at the B-1.

What do you have?

[maven]

I have a dinged R. He should be on the EL, not in the EZ, and for this very reason!

[jTheUmp]

Well, yes, but what's the ruling?

[PAUmpire]

I will get you a rule reference when I get a chance.

But it is : Situation B: Ball is recovered by Team A at the B-1.

In this instance the Referee is treated as dead air, unless he was standing OB when touched.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

NCAA Rules:

Team A's free kick:
1) bounces at the B-5
2) hits the Referee who is standing 2 yards deep in the end zone
3) rebounds (without touching in the end zone) back to the B-1.

Situation A: ball is declared dead there when no player attempts to secure it.
Situation B: Ball is recovered by Team A at the B-1.

What do you have?

For most sizes of crews, you have a kickoff out of bounds (R is not on the field - he's out of bounds) - and based on this info alone I don't know whether it went out in or out of the end zone.

[jTheUmp]

This was on a 7-man crew... R was standing 2 yards deep in the End Zone in the middle of the field when the ball hit him and bounced out to the 1-yard-line. The ball never hit in anything in the end zone, except for the R.

(This actually happened in a game up here a few weeks back. The R called it a touchback, but in looking through my rule book I couldn't find any support for doing so other than 'points not covered in the rules' or the 'sometimes you just gotta officiate' philosophy).

[maven]

I think in fairness to B you need to rule this a TB, since the kick would have touched the ground in the EZ if the R had been in the proper position.

Sticking them on the B-1 is technically correct but brutal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by maven

I think in fairness to B you need to rule this a TB, since the kick would have touched the ground in the EZ if the R had been in the proper position.

Sticking them on the B-1 is technically correct but brutal.

Worse yet, based on the OP, you're giving A the ball, 1st and G on the 1.

Ouch.

[MD Longhorn]

Is it brutal?

What if it didn't hit R, and hit the ground but didn't go out of the EZ? The receiving team is responsible for possessing this ball - they are at fault if they don't cover it up.

I get your point regarding it being brutal if the receiving team did recover it at the 1 (and for whatever reason didn't run it) ... the R's error in getting in the way likely cost them 19 yards. But R knows (or should) they can't just ignore this ball.

(And lastly ... brutality aside... Most games under NCAA rules are on TV - and reviewable. I truly don't think, "Oops, sorry about that" is going to cut it when K's team insists on the ball and it's theirs by rule.)

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Is it brutal?

What if it didn't hit R, and hit the ground but didn't go out of the EZ?

While I agree it is B's responsibility to recover the ball, if the ball hits the ground in the EZ untouched, it is a TB. If the ball doesn't hit the R and it shouldn't because he shouldn't be standing there, it is a TB. This is more than likely what Team B is expecting to happen and it is probably going to be quite a surprise to them to realize the ball is still live with A falls on it.

the R's error in getting in the way likely cost them 19 yards.

24 yards.

[maven]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Is it brutal?

What if it didn't hit R, and hit the ground but didn't go out of the EZ? The receiving team is responsible for possessing this ball - they are at fault if they don't cover it up.

One of us is missing something, Mike. You're saying B has to cover a free kick that has touched the ground in the EZ?

[Fan10]

I must be missing something here, but I was always under the impression that a ball that breaks the plane is a touchback. I know that in NCAA, you can't do the play similar to the out of bounds in basketball where a kicking team player jumps and bats it back into the field. When that happens, it's ruled a TB since the ball broke the plane.

How is this different?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Fan10

I must be missing something here, but I was always under the impression that a ball that breaks the plane is a touchback.

True in Federation, not true in NCAA.

In NCAA, a kick is a touchback when it touches the ground in the endzone and is untouched by Team B (Team R) before touching the ground.

If the ball is touched before hitting the ground in the endzone, it is a live ball and free to recover.

I know that in NCAA, you can't do the play similar to the out of bounds in basketball where a kicking team player jumps and bats it back into the field. When that happens, it's ruled a TB since the ball broke the plane.

Are you talking about a punt where the kicking team is trying to keep it from going into the endzone? In NCAA, the position of the ball relative to where it is touched is key. The actual position of the player (as long as he is in bounds) has no bearing to what is ruled.

In this situation, if the ball is touched by the kicking team in the endzone, the kicking team is guilty of illegal touching. Since the ball is in the endzone, it will be placed at the B-20. Same result as a touchback but it is not a touchback.

[Robert Goodman]

So if you're officiating NCAA and a kick comes to you in the end zone that you can't duck out of the way of, the moral is, you'd better catch it!