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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 03:49pm
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NCAA Touchback or Not?

NCAA rules.

Ball is fumbled by the offense almost at the goal line.

Nose of the now loose ball hits the marked goal line stripe about halfway through the stripe.

Ball bounces back and out of bounds just short of the goal line.

Ruled out of bounds at the 6" line - offense kept possession.

Defense argued that it should have been a touchback because the fumbled ball broke the plane before going out of bounds.

Which is correct and why?
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 04:48pm
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That argument makes about as much sense as the offense arguing it should have been a TD.

The ruling was correct. Although the attacking team was responsible for momentarily putting the ball on the goal line, the ball didn't become dead OOB behind that goal line.

The rule reference is 8-6-1 (a):

It is a touchback when (t)he ball becomes dead out of bounds behind a goal line, except from an incomplete forward pass, or becomes dead in the possession of a player on, above or behind his own goal line and the attacking team is responsible for the ball being there (Rules 7-2-4-a and b) (A.R. 7-2-4-I, A.R. 8-6-1-I and II, and A.R. 10-2-2-XVI).
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 07:17pm
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Just consider: Does the loose ball become dead on touching the goal line? The answer to that question gives you the answer to the question you seek.
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 08:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe View Post
That argument makes about as much sense as the offense arguing it should have been a TD.


.
They didn't have possession - different not related issue.

But - if the offense had possession and any part of the ball broke the plane it would be a TD would it not?

The ball becomes dead upon it becoming a TD does it not?

It wasn't a pass.

The offense caused it.

But it wasn't in possession of a player.

Not entirely logical though.

So if the ball is loose, crosses the goal line - impetus by the offense, and a player kicks it back out of the end zone so it goes out of bounds in front of the goal line - it isn't a touchback? And the offense retains possession? So the offense themselves could initiate the kick or push it out to keep possession?

Reward the goof?

I guess it's OK by rule.

Thanks.

(Happened in the Syracuse-Cincinnati game)
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 08:51pm
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A plane does not mean that it works the same for all plays. The goal line plane isn't the same for an offensive player with possession as it is for a punt, for example. Other examples include the 10 yard free kick plane (Team B's restraining line) - the ball must not only cross the plane but also remain over there (or, at least, hit something over the line) for the kicking team to be eligible to recover the ball. I had a play years ago when the free kick cross the line, but didn't remain over there and was still in the air when Team A recovered it. Ruling -- Team B's ball.
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 09:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
They didn't have possession - different not related issue.

But - if the offense had possession and any part of the ball broke the plane it would be a TD would it not?

The ball becomes dead upon it becoming a TD does it not?

It wasn't a pass.

The offense caused it.

But it wasn't in possession of a player.

Not entirely logical though.

So if the ball is loose, crosses the goal line - impetus by the offense, and a player kicks it back out of the end zone so it goes out of bounds in front of the goal line - it isn't a touchback? And the offense retains possession? So the offense themselves could initiate the kick or push it out to keep possession?

Reward the goof?

I guess it's OK by rule.

Thanks.

(Happened in the Syracuse-Cincinnati game)
I'm not well versed in NCAA rules, but this seems like an illegal kick to me.

I'm not sure how this would be enforced.
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Old Sat Nov 03, 2012, 09:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
They didn't have possession - different not related issue.

But - if the offense had possession and any part of the ball broke the plane it would be a TD would it not?

The ball becomes dead upon it becoming a TD does it not?

It wasn't a pass.

The offense caused it.

But it wasn't in possession of a player.

Not entirely logical though.

So if the ball is loose, crosses the goal line - impetus by the offense, and a player kicks it back out of the end zone so it goes out of bounds in front of the goal line - it isn't a touchback? And the offense retains possession? So the offense themselves could initiate the kick or push it out to keep possession?

Reward the goof?
You're calling it a reward, but consider that if an attacking team player got possession of the ball there, instead of knocking it away, his team would've gotten a TD, so I don't think their team is going to consider it a reward.

Similar "rewards" occur when a player of a team in possession of a loose ball muffs it out of bounds between the goal lines under other circumstances -- they get to keep possession, minus a down, if they have one to spare.
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