Illegal Batting

[Suudy]

We had a play last Friday that I wanted to confirm.

1st and 10 from the A20. A3 runs to the right where he is hit at the A25 and fumbles. The ball is rolling near towards sidelines where B50, in an attempt to keep the ball in bounds, bats the ball at the A25. He fails, and the ball goes out of bounds at the A30. (According to the LJ, it was clearly a bat and not an attempt to gain possession of the ball.)

What's the spot of enforcement?

[maven]

You need to answer the usual questions:

1. What type of play?
2. What is the basic spot for that type of play?

Given no special enforcement for illegal batting, and under ABO all fouls by B are enforced from the basic spot, you have your answer.

Or do you have a more specific question about determining the answer to #1 or #2?

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by maven

You need to answer the usual questions:

1. What type of play?
2. What is the basic spot for that type of play?

Given no special enforcement for illegal batting, and under ABO all fouls by B are enforced from the basic spot, you have your answer.

Or do you have a more specific question about determining the answer to #1 or #2?

Well, we went from spot of the fumble (the A25). This also happened to be the spot of the foul. We had discussion if it should be from the OOB spot, but we agreed that it was a loose ball play and that the basic spot was the end of the related run (the fumble at the A25).

Now, what we aren't sure if is if the it was the spot of the foul or the end of the related run. In this case they were the same. But had they been different...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Well, we went from spot of the fumble (the A25). This also happened to be the spot of the foul. We had discussion if it should be from the OOB spot, but we agreed that it was a loose ball play and that the basic spot was the end of the related run (the fumble at the A25).

Now, what we aren't sure if is if the it was the spot of the foul or the end of the related run. In this case they were the same. But had they been different...

End of the related run is the basic spot since it was beyond the line of scrimmage. All but one enforcement. This isn't the "but one." Foul on B enforced from the basic spot.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Now, what we aren't sure if is if the it was the spot of the foul or the end of the related run. In this case they were the same. But had they been different...

Ah, there's the issue. Under ABO, all fouls (without special enforcement) by B are enforced from the basic spot. "All B fouls, basic spot." Easy!

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by maven

Ah, there's the issue. Under ABO, all fouls (without special enforcement) by B are enforced from the basic spot. "All B fouls, basic spot." Easy!

I'd be careful with that. A better statement would be "All defense fouls, basic spot." Team B remains team B throughout the down, even after a change of possession. Offense and defense change as team possession changes.

Using your example, B intercepts a pass at the B20, returns it to the B40, but was guilty of a hold at the B30 during the run. The penalty is enforced from the B30 because it was a foul by the OFFENSE behind the basic spot (B40).

[maven]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I'd be careful with that. A better statement would be "All defense fouls, basic spot."

Of course that's it, and that's what I always say. Rich messed me up, talking about B...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

Of course that's it, and that's what I always say. Rich messed me up, talking about B...

Eh, B remained the defense during the play. Nothing I wrote was incorrect.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Suudy

...but we agreed that it was a loose ball play and that the basic spot was the end of the related run (the fumble at the A25).

REPLY: Just realize that you all agreed wrong. It was not a loose ball play. The foul occurred while the ball was loose during a running play. And you got the basic spot correct: it was the end of the run (the spot of A's fumble).

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Just realize that you all agreed wrong. It was not a loose ball play. The foul occurred while the ball was loose during a running play. And you got the basic spot correct: it was the end of the run (the spot of A's fumble).

Doh! You are right. Thinking of 10-3-3 and 10-4-4. Bad terminology.

Thanks for the correction.