Kick play

[maven]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Kicking a live loose ball is not "a kick" as defined in the major codes.

False. NFHS defines a kick as the intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg, or foot. 2-24-1

[HLin NC]

Kicking a live loose ball is not "a kick" as defined in the major codes.

How can you have an illegal kick if its not kicked?

NFHS 2-24 ART. 9 . . . An illegal kick is any intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg or foot which does not comply with Articles 3 and 4. When the ball is loose following an illegal kick, it is treated as a fumble.
Perhaps the last sentence is throwing you?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by maven

False. NFHS defines a kick as the intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg, or foot. 2-24-1

This is true the act is kicking the ball but the play is not a kick. The rules for a kick, such as a kick breaking the plane of Team R's endzone, are not in effect.

A loose ball illegally kicked retains the same status as it had prior to being kicked.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Welpe

This is true the act is kicking the ball but the play is not a kick. The rules for a kick, such as a kick breaking the plane of Team R's endzone, are not in effect.

A loose ball illegally kicked retains the same status as it had prior to being kicked.

True. 'A kick' is ambiguous between the name of an act and a live-ball status.

Illegal kicks are kicks in the first sense but not the second. If Robert intended the second sense, then he was right to say that an illegal kick is not a 'kick': can't score, is not a TB when crossing R's GL, etc.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by maven

True. 'A kick' is ambiguous between the name of an act and a live-ball status.

Illegal kicks are kicks in the first sense but not the second. If Robert intended the second sense, then he was right to say that an illegal kick is not a 'kick': can't score, is not a TB when crossing R's GL, etc.

Well see, what they wound up doing for the latter purpose was breaking out everything into free & scrimmage kicks, then defining those individually as "legal kicks". I think their former language, and NCAA's still, is easier to follow.

Fed & NCAA used to have substantive differences between illegal kicks and illegal kicking. They don't any longer, do they? Seems Fed could save some words by dropping the word "legal", in which case the various types of kick, as well as the status of the ball, and all the substantive provisions regarding balls kicked legally & illegally would remain the same, unless I'm missing something. An illegal kick would result from kicking the ball in any way other than "a kick", because all the kicks are now defined according to the circumstances under which they may be done legally.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by maven

False. NFHS defines a kick as the intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg, or foot. 2-24-1

I checked and you're right. Previously Fed had defined "a kick" only by inference as the product of the "kicks classified as to origin", while NCAA had had a separate definition of "kicking the ball" (as above for Fed's of "a kick" currently), which phrase was then used in their definitions of the types of kicks. This is why NFHS now has to have their language "a legal kick" in the various places they use it for referring to the status of a loose ball.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I checked and you're right.

Meh, don't roll so fast.

2-1-3:
"A loose ball is a pass, fumble or a kick. The terms 'pass', 'fumble' and 'kick' are sometimes used as abbreviations when the ball is loose following the acts of passing, fumbling or kicking the ball. "