Kick play

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by maven

False. NFHS defines a kick as the intentional striking of the ball with the knee, lower leg, or foot. 2-24-1

I checked and you're right. Previously Fed had defined "a kick" only by inference as the product of the "kicks classified as to origin", while NCAA had had a separate definition of "kicking the ball" (as above for Fed's of "a kick" currently), which phrase was then used in their definitions of the types of kicks. This is why NFHS now has to have their language "a legal kick" in the various places they use it for referring to the status of a loose ball.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by maven

True. 'A kick' is ambiguous between the name of an act and a live-ball status.

Illegal kicks are kicks in the first sense but not the second. If Robert intended the second sense, then he was right to say that an illegal kick is not a 'kick': can't score, is not a TB when crossing R's GL, etc.

Well see, what they wound up doing for the latter purpose was breaking out everything into free & scrimmage kicks, then defining those individually as "legal kicks". I think their former language, and NCAA's still, is easier to follow.

Fed & NCAA used to have substantive differences between illegal kicks and illegal kicking. They don't any longer, do they? Seems Fed could save some words by dropping the word "legal", in which case the various types of kick, as well as the status of the ball, and all the substantive provisions regarding balls kicked legally & illegally would remain the same, unless I'm missing something. An illegal kick would result from kicking the ball in any way other than "a kick", because all the kicks are now defined according to the circumstances under which they may be done legally.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I checked and you're right.

Meh, don't roll so fast.

2-1-3:
"A loose ball is a pass, fumble or a kick. The terms 'pass', 'fumble' and 'kick' are sometimes used as abbreviations when the ball is loose following the acts of passing, fumbling or kicking the ball. "

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Nope. The ball must be controlled to be a place kick. A scrimmage kick could also be a drop kick... but the OP does not describe a drop kick.

I'm confused, Mike. The Rules Book clearly states in 2-24-7 that a place kick MAY be controlled by a teammate. My gut was to say this play is IK, but the darn rules tripped me up. What gives?

[maven]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

I'm confused, Mike. The Rules Book clearly states in 2-24-7 that a place kick MAY be controlled by a teammate. My gut was to say this play is IK, but the darn rules tripped me up. What gives?

The point is to permit a ball on a tee, with or without control by a holder. Kickoffs and FG attempts both generally involve a tee, but only the latter usually uses a holder. A ball in a "fixed position on the ground" is also permissible. These all count as place kicks.

A ball rolling on the ground is not in "place," and hence kicking it cannot be a "place kick." A ball that has rolled to a stop is not in a fixed position.

The play is clearly an illegal kick.