Center Elligible

[surehands]

Can the center be elligiable for a pass on the swing gate if he has the correct number and is the end player on one end of the line? Where is this covered in High School rulebook?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by surehands

Can the center be elligiable for a pass on the swing gate if he has the correct number and is the end player on one end of the line? Where is this covered in High School rulebook?

Snapper, not center -- he's not the center of anything in that formation.

It's not going to be specifically covered. He's an end, by rule, and he's eligible by number. Isn't that enough?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Rich

Snapper, not center -- he's not the center of anything in that formation.

It's not going to be specifically covered. He's an end, by rule, and he's eligible by number. Isn't that enough?

Doesn't he have to report?!

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by Rich

Snapper, not center -- he's not the center of anything in that formation.

It's not going to be specifically covered. He's an end, by rule, and he's eligible by number. Isn't that enough?

Question often comes up and the answer can be clouded with the wording of the numbering exceptions (7-2-5). It seems pretty clear in both exceptions (1,2) that the snapper is not an eligible receiver. But of course this only applies when the offense "sets or shifts into a scrimmage kick formation."

If in a swinging gate formation and there is a player lined up "in scrimmage kick" formation, then the snapper would not be eligbile.(2-14-2)

So, I am thinking of a situation that is not covered in one of the exceptions that would allow the snapper to be eligible...like a normal scrimamge play (regardless of down), no scrimmage kick formation, 5 players #50-79 requirements met, and #23 is on the end of the line, snaps the ball and goes and catches a pass....sounds legal to me... unless I am missing something...in that case my answer would be the same as Rich's...any other thoughts out there?

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Question often comes up and the answer can be clouded with the wording of the numbering exceptions (7-2-5). It seems pretty clear in both exceptions (1,2) that the snapper is not an eligible receiver. But of course this only applies when the offense "sets or shifts into a scrimmage kick formation."

If in a swinging gate formation and there is a player lined up "in scrimmage kick" formation, then the snapper would not be eligbile.(2-14-2)

So, I am thinking of a situation that is not covered in one of the exceptions that would allow the snapper to be eligible...like a normal scrimamge play (regardless of down), no scrimmage kick formation, 5 players #50-79 requirements met, and #23 is on the end of the line, snaps the ball and goes and catches a pass....sounds legal to me... unless I am missing something...in that case my answer would be the same as Rich's...any other thoughts out there?

Does this apply on 4th down or during a try, though? Only the first exception in 7-2-5 says the snapper is ineligible and must be in between the ends. The second exception for 4th down or try does not make this distinction or bar the snapper from being on the end or, by inference, ineligible. It seems that since care was taken to note that on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down that there are restrictions on the snapper, the omission of said restrictions in the exception for 4th down and tries would make it legal.

[Rich]

And I was assuming 4th down/try. The rest is covered in the area on numbering exceptions, etc. See above.

[maven]

Originally Posted by scrounge

The second exception for 4th down or try does not make this distinction or bar the snapper from being on the end or, by inference, ineligible. It seems that since care was taken to note that on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down that there are restrictions on the snapper, the omission of said restrictions in the exception for 4th down and tries would make it legal.

Indeed. Exception 2 basically suspends the requirement that interior linemen wear ineligible numbers. You could have all 11 wearing eligible numbers, and if the snapper is on the end of the line, he's eligible.

[whitehat]

Here is where I am having a problem with exception 2:

If all 11 players are numbered 1-11 (eligible #s) which players are in the game according to the part of the exception that says "a player in the game under this exception must assume an initial postion on his line of scrimmage between the ends..."?

...do we just assume #11 player on the end of the line, who may or may not be the snapper, is not replacing one of the 5 50-79 guys?

[HLin NC]

The 5 of them that assume the position normally numbered 50-79.

[maven]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Here is where I am having a problem with exception 2:

If all 11 players are numbered 1-11 (eligible #s) which players are in the game according to the part of the exception that says "a player in the game under this exception must assume an initial postion on his line of scrimmage between the ends..."?

...do we just assume #11 player on the end of the line, who may or may not be the snapper, is not replacing one of the 5 50-79 guys?

If he's on the end of the line, he's not replacing one of the ineligibles.

[whitehat]

Scrounge, I went back and re-read your post and that made a lot of sense (and maven and HL as well). I see what you are saying and generally agree. However, we all, from time to time, see players numbered 50-79 legally lined up on the end of line.

Surehands, back to your OP. Did we answer your question? "Can the center be eligible for a pass on the swing gate if he has the correct number and is the end player on one end of the line? Where is this covered in High School rulebook?"

According to 7-2-5b I would say yes he is eligible as long as...
1. snapper has an eligible number and is on the end of the line...and...
2. it is done on 4th down or a try ...and...
3. its not done on 1st, second or 3rd down...and...
4. the snapper is not replacing one of the #50-79 guys. (But, we have all seen #50-79 guys legally line up on the end of the line and..the clincher...it may be hard to convince a coach that the opppents normal snapper is not usually a #50-79 guy who was replaced by #22 who caught the pass and scored the winning point(s)).


I am truly not trying to be difficult Just seems like they could clarify and simplify this one a little more.

[HLin NC]

As my state supervisor said, "don't make this any harder than it actually is".

The exception applies only to scrimmage kicks. Downs 1-3, only the snapper can have an otherwise eligble number. Down 4 and try- any/all K players can have eligible numbers. The phrase "normally numbered" applies to normal non-scrimmage kick offensive formations being applied to the scrimmage kick.

The end is still the end, a back is still a back. They are still required to be eligible by number and position.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

As my state supervisor said, "don't make this any harder than it actually is".

The exception applies only to scrimmage kicks. Downs 1-3, only the snapper can have an otherwise eligble number. Down 4 and try- any/all K players can have eligible numbers. The phrase "normally numbered" applies to normal non-scrimmage kick offensive formations being applied to the scrimmage kick.

The end is still the end, a back is still a back. They are still required to be eligible by number and position.

So, the snapper can only be eligible if he is on the end, and if he's wearing an eligible number. That's it, that's the list. NO need to worry about what down it is, or what the formation is (other than the fact that the snapper must be an uncovered end.)

??

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Adam

So, the snapper can only be eligible if he is on the end, and if he's wearing an eligible number. That's it, that's the list.

Yep.

NO need to worry about what down it is, or what the formation is (other than the fact that the snapper must be an uncovered end.)
??

An end is "uncovered" by definition. If there's another player on the LOS between the sideline and the "end"... then that other player is the end.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Here is where I am having a problem with exception 2:

If all 11 players are numbered 1-11 (eligible #s) which players are in the game according to the part of the exception that says "a player in the game under this exception must assume an initial postion on his line of scrimmage between the ends..."?

...do we just assume #11 player on the end of the line, who may or may not be the snapper, is not replacing one of the 5 50-79 guys?

The 5 players on the LOS between the ends are the 5 players that are in the game under the numbering exception