No auto 1st down for DPI burns a team

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've given up having an opinion about the rules. Except, of course, that the other 48 states should adopt NCAA rules.

You think that HS officials (considering some college officials struggle with this too) fouls the determine BBW and the Tackle box? Better yet or have to get the "umpire rule" right on DPIs?

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You think that HS officials (considering some college officials struggle with this too) fouls the determine BBW and the Tackle box? Better yet or have to get the "umpire rule" right on DPIs?

Peace

OK...I'll bite...what is the "umpire rule"?

There could be some challenges to your typical HS official learning the NCAA rules but in general I think the NCAA rules are better. Low blocks is NOT one of them.

[JRutledge]

When you have DPI at the 17 or under, you go to the flag or the 2 yard line, which ever comes first.

I also agree that many NCAA rules might make sense, but they would not be appropriate for all the participants. Remember a lot of NF rules are for safety purposes and many NCAA rules would create more contact or more dangerous contact. And then you have to have officials that understand some basics and they don't. I see officials that do small college struggle with even simple interpretations from the NCAA. Now you want a first year guy trying to decide when you have encroachment that should be shut down or not shut down? And at least they have 7 officials at that level when some levels will have 2 in some cases where I live. No thank you!!!

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When you have DPI at the 17 or under, you go to the flag or the 2 yard line, which ever comes first.

I also agree that many NCAA rules might make sense, but they would not be appropriate for all the participants. Remember a lot of NF rules are for safety purposes and many NCAA rules would create more contact or more dangerous contact. And then you have to have officials that understand some basics and they don't. I see officials that do small college struggle with even simple interpretations from the NCAA. Now you want a first year guy trying to decide when you have encroachment that should be shut down or not shut down? And at least they have 7 officials at that level when some levels will have 2 in some cases where I live. No thank you!!!

Peace

Know that enforcement well but never heard it called the "umpire rule".

I think Texas and Massachuessets have proven that high school officials CAN learn NCAA rules. Those of us who first learn HS rules and then learn NCAA rules may get confused because they are different than what we know. If you start with NCAA rules they are all just new. It's not a major issue for me but I definitely enjoy working games under NCAA rules over HS rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Every high school official I work with would have no problem with this... then again, I'm in Texas.

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Know that enforcement well but never heard it called the "umpire rule".

Keep in mind when I say, "High School Officials" I am not talking about people from those states. For one I bet many of the people played in those states are have a familiarity to what happens in those rules. And I am also not talking about just officials handling the game from a pure understanding standpoint. I think a problem would be how many officials you have on the field as well. NCAA has all the time. I do not want 3 newer officials working a Sophomore B game and having to decide things like 10 second run offs and substitution situations and 40 and 25 second clocks, when we have no play clock at all. Yeah, I do not want that one.

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I think Texas and Massachuessets have proven that high school officials CAN learn NCAA rules. Those of us who first learn HS rules and then learn NCAA rules may get confused because they are different than what we know. If you start with NCAA rules they are all just new. It's not a major issue for me but I definitely enjoy working games under NCAA rules over HS rules.

You say it works, but are you sure? Those are relative small samples to the country. We have a lot of guys in our state that cannot handle rules when they come from the other levels. Just the horse collar rule alone was so inconsistently enforced and misapplied, even with clarifications. It would take several years to not have simple mistakes as people would have some expectation of NCAA rules from all sides. And even when you try to incorporate college philosophies, officials have a hard time because "The rule did not say it that way." There are a lot of philosophies that would have to be adopted as well.

The most important part would be the blocking and other safety rules that would not exist. I showed a video where officials called a BBW on a legal play and a TD was called back. Now imagine a 10 to 2 block and how that would be officiated by a similar crew? Then I was talking to an HS official that wants to get into college that wanted to enforce a rule on socks being decorative at a college game and could not understand why it was not called by others. Yep, that is the guy you would have to constantly deal with. Be careful what you ask for.

Peace

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then I was talking to an HS official that wants to get into college that wanted to enforce a rule on socks being decorative at a college game and could not understand why it was not called by others. Yep, that is the guy you would have to constantly deal with. Be careful what you ask for.

But isn't this more attitude than knowledge/skill? Every association has the guy that brings a pressure gauge to the game and checks the ball pressure, or the guy that stops every play because a player's jersey isn't completely tucked in, etc. But these aren't specific to rules.

Are saying that the overall attitude of officials doing a game by the NCAA ruleset also need to be adjusted to an NCAA mindset in terms of enforcement? Is the battle against overzealous pedants any better in MA/TX than in other states? I'm not so sure.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Suudy

But isn't this more attitude than knowledge/skill? Every association has the guy that brings a pressure gauge to the game and checks the ball pressure, or the guy that stops every play because a player's jersey isn't completely tucked in, etc. But these aren't specific to rules.

Are saying that the overall attitude of officials doing a game by the NCAA ruleset also need to be adjusted to an NCAA mindset in terms of enforcement? Is the battle against overzealous pedants any better in MA/TX than in other states? I'm not so sure.

The state where officials have to monitor a handshake line? No, they have their issues there, too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Suudy

But isn't this more attitude than knowledge/skill? Every association has the guy that brings a pressure gauge to the game and checks the ball pressure, or the guy that stops every play because a player's jersey isn't completely tucked in, etc. But these aren't specific to rules.

Are saying that the overall attitude of officials doing a game by the NCAA ruleset also need to be adjusted to an NCAA mindset in terms of enforcement? Is the battle against overzealous pedants any better in MA/TX than in other states? I'm not so sure.

NCAA rules are more complicated. When you include exceptions and other areas where a rule constantly changes like the crackback blocking, yes I think it is more about knowledge then skill. It takes a lot of study and experience to understand NCAA rules when you have not dealt with them most of your life.

I belong to an association that focuses on college heavily and all you hear is people complain how they get the two mixed up or do not understand rules for the NCAA.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Every association has the guy that brings a pressure gauge to the game and checks the ball pressure

You say this like it's a bad thing. My entire crew had a gauge in their bag.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You think that HS officials (considering some college officials struggle with this too) fouls the determine BBW and the Tackle box? Better yet or have to get the "umpire rule" right on DPIs?

Peace

Every high school official I work with would have no problem with this... then again, I'm in Texas.