Wow! KCI

Refsmitty · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 09, 2013, 03:52pm

Ok....Friday night

K punts from their 30...R gives an invalid fair catch signal at R's 40...K interferes with the punt which was then muffed and recovered by R at the 50

We really screwed it up but... should we have given offsetting fouls due to each team committing live ball fouls or...

Option 1) Marched off 5 for the invalid signal - 15 for the KCI - award R a fair catch at the 50
Option 2) Award R the result of the play at the 50
Option 3) Offsetting - replay 4th down

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 09, 2013, 04:11pm

It is an offset if they both take accept the penalties. Not sure why you would give the option, but it could be a strategy situation if time or field position is a factor.

Peace

CT1 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 09, 2013, 04:54pm

R can decline K's KCI foul & keep the ball after enforcement of the invalid signal penalty, or can accept K's foul for a replay of the down.

MD Longhorn · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 09, 2013, 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1

R can decline K's KCI foul & keep the ball after enforcement of the invalid signal penalty, or can accept K's foul for a replay of the down.

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball. I don't think they will be doing that.

JKinATL29 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 09, 2013, 07:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball. I don't think they will be doing that.

Not sure why it would be K's ball if R recovered.

R's recovery at the 50 is the end of the kick. R's foul is PSK so they have the option of declining K's foul and taking the ball at their own 45 (after enforcement of 5 yard penalty from the end of the kick) or accepting K's foul and replaying down.

BktBallRef · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Sep 09, 2013, 10:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball.

Why?

CT1 · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure why you would give the option, ...

Why would you not give R an option?

asdf · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball. I don't think they will be doing that.

You apparently overlooked the fact that R recovered the ball.......

MD Longhorn · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKinATL29

Not sure why it would be K's ball if R recovered.

R's recovery at the 50 is the end of the kick. R's foul is PSK so they have the option of declining K's foul and taking the ball at their own 45 (after enforcement of 5 yard penalty from the end of the kick) or accepting K's foul and replaying down.

My bad... I misread this as K recovering after the KCI.

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1

Why would you not give R an option?

You have a classic double foul. Usually you do not ask both teams their options in that situation.

Peace

Robert Goodman · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You have a classic double foul. Usually you do not ask both teams their options in that situation.

Why not, when the choice is not obvious? And it doesn't look obvious in this situation.

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why not, when the choice is not obvious? And it doesn't look obvious in this situation.

You must did not see the "usually" in my post. And I can tell you most would not ask and replay the down.

Peace

bisonlj · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You must did not see the "usually" in my post. And I can tell you most would not ask and replay the down.

Peace

In this instance R's choices:

Decline the KCI to keep the ball. Enforce R's invalid signal from the spot of the foul (behind basic spot). R's ball 1/10 at the R35
Accept the KCI resulting in a double foul. Replay the down from the K30.

Neither option is obvious so in this case I definitely think we should ask. Do you see the options differently or do you think 99% of R coaches will want a re-kick?

JRutledge · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:17pm

I think it really depends on the down and distance and the part of the game. It is not like having the ball is a big advantage at the 35 unless time is of the essence.

I think most Referees that I know (including me) would just make this a double foul and play this over. Yes R gets the ball, but they are not in great field position where it is really much of a consideration IMO. If they were on the other 35, then I could see a different choice or possibility.

Peace

asdf · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:34pm

By giving the team the option to retain the ball, it actually presents them with the logical choice based on the circumstances surrounding the play.

Example...... (not related to the original play, which would be R's ball at the 35 or replay the down)

"Coach, if you decline the penalty on K, you will have the ball at your own 15 yard line after we enforce the penalty against you....." (starting deep in his own territory will probably persuade him to replay the down)

"Coach, if you decline the penalty on K, you will have the ball at the 50 yard line after we enforce the penalty against you...." (having the ball at the 50 will probably persuade him to decline K's penalty and start a drive at mid-field)

I don't want to be around when we don't offer an option, the replayed down ends up in a muffed kick and a recovery by K, and the coach finds out that we didn't give him the option to refuse K's foul.