Wow! KCI

[JRutledge]

It is an offset if they both take accept the penalties. Not sure why you would give the option, but it could be a strategy situation if time or field position is a factor.

Peace

[CT1]

R can decline K's KCI foul & keep the ball after enforcement of the invalid signal penalty, or can accept K's foul for a replay of the down.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

R can decline K's KCI foul & keep the ball after enforcement of the invalid signal penalty, or can accept K's foul for a replay of the down.

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball. I don't think they will be doing that.

[JKinATL29]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball. I don't think they will be doing that.

Not sure why it would be K's ball if R recovered.

R's recovery at the 50 is the end of the kick. R's foul is PSK so they have the option of declining K's foul and taking the ball at their own 45 (after enforcement of 5 yard penalty from the end of the kick) or accepting K's foul and replaying down.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JKinATL29

Not sure why it would be K's ball if R recovered.

R's recovery at the 50 is the end of the kick. R's foul is PSK so they have the option of declining K's foul and taking the ball at their own 45 (after enforcement of 5 yard penalty from the end of the kick) or accepting K's foul and replaying down.

My bad... I misread this as K recovering after the KCI.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball.

Why?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If R declines the KCI foul, it's K's ball. I don't think they will be doing that.

You apparently overlooked the fact that R recovered the ball.......

[CT1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure why you would give the option, ...

Why would you not give R an option?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why would you not give R an option?

You have a classic double foul. Usually you do not ask both teams their options in that situation.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You have a classic double foul. Usually you do not ask both teams their options in that situation.

Why not, when the choice is not obvious? And it doesn't look obvious in this situation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why not, when the choice is not obvious? And it doesn't look obvious in this situation.

You must did not see the "usually" in my post. And I can tell you most would not ask and replay the down.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You must did not see the "usually" in my post. And I can tell you most would not ask and replay the down.

Peace

In this instance R's choices:

Decline the KCI to keep the ball. Enforce R's invalid signal from the spot of the foul (behind basic spot). R's ball 1/10 at the R35
Accept the KCI resulting in a double foul. Replay the down from the K30.

Neither option is obvious so in this case I definitely think we should ask. Do you see the options differently or do you think 99% of R coaches will want a re-kick?

[JRutledge]

I think it really depends on the down and distance and the part of the game. It is not like having the ball is a big advantage at the 35 unless time is of the essence.

I think most Referees that I know (including me) would just make this a double foul and play this over. Yes R gets the ball, but they are not in great field position where it is really much of a consideration IMO. If they were on the other 35, then I could see a different choice or possibility.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You must did not see the "usually" in my post. And I can tell you most would not ask and replay the down.

So by "that situation" you meant double fouls in general, not this situation?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

So by "that situation" you meant double fouls in general, not this situation?

I will say it this way. Last night at one of my associations met, the topic was Penalty Enforcement. This association is geared towards HS and college officials and many of the presenters or people in the room work D1 football and many crew chiefs.

When the issue of double fouls came up, no one gave any caveats to how or when, they said in both the HS and college presentations, "We do not need to talk to anyone." Now this specific situation was not mentioned, but this situation is not a "clean hands" situation and that is the prevailing attitude here. If that is not what guys where you are do it, once again I am fine with that. But where I live, most are not making a big stink over asking coaches in these kinds of situation. I have been in this area and apart of this particular association (I belong to others as well) for over 10 years and listened to guys who I see on TV both in college and the NFL speak on what they do and never have I heard anyone make a caveat for a punt where R might decline the penalty just because they get the ball. If it is a double foul by rule, we replay the down. And that is why I said what the down and distance might be could factor in, because replaying the down might realistically give K the opportunity to run a play from scrimmage and get a first down. Never heard anyone suggest, "Well I do not know what the coach thinks about his returner" as a factor to replaying the down. Then again I am not a Referee on a regular basis anymore but when I was no one said "boo" when we would replay the down in a similar situation. I think we as officials spend too much time worrying about what a coach is going to complain about in the first place. If they want to keep the ball, they better make more noise that is a possibility.

Peace