Roughing the "passer"

[MD Longhorn]

NFL, NCAA, NFHS, Canadian Rulings:

On these plays, the "Tackle" is something you would not rule as unnecessary roughness against a normal player, but something that if performed on a QB behind the line, you WOULD rule as roughing the passer.

A) RB#34 is 10 yards past the line of scrimmage when he attempts to pass the ball downfield to WR#80. RB is then tackled as above. Ruling?

B) RB#34 is 10 yards past the line of scrimmage when he attempts to throw a backward pass across the field to WR#80. RB is then tackled as above. Ruling?

C) RB#34 is 10 yards past the line of scrimmage when he attempts to throw a backward pass across the field to WR#80. Due to wind, the ball actually ends up going 2 yards forward before caught by WR#80. While the ball is in the air, RB is tackled as above. Ruling?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

NFL, NCAA, NFHS, Canadian Rulings:

On these plays, the "Tackle" is something you would not rule as unnecessary roughness against a normal player, but something that if performed on a QB behind the line, you WOULD rule as roughing the passer.

A) RB#34 is 10 yards past the line of scrimmage when he attempts to pass the ball downfield to WR#80. RB is then tackled as above. Ruling?

The RB is expected to know where he is on the field, so I would rule this an offside pass (subject to penalty). When the RB is hit as you describe, I do not see an illegal hit because the defense wouldn't expect a forward pass from the RB.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

B) RB#34 is 10 yards past the line of scrimmage when he attempts to throw a backward pass across the field to WR#80. RB is then tackled as above. Ruling?

When the RB is hit as you describe, I do not see an illegal hit because the defense wouldn't expect a forward pass from the RB again because he is sufficiently beyond the LS. That a pass was made doesn't draw a RTP foul. B could still be guilty of a generic UR foul, though, but it would have to sell itself.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

C) RB#34 is 10 yards past the line of scrimmage when he attempts to throw a backward pass across the field to WR#80. Due to wind, the ball actually ends up going 2 yards forward before caught by WR#80. While the ball is in the air, RB is tackled as above. Ruling?

Same as (B).

[Adam]

NFHS
I'm writing off the top of my head (for the sake of learning since I'm a FB rookie), but my understanding is that for RTP to be called, you have to have a legal forward pass. None of these situations fit that.

[HLin NC]

Adam, you are correct. Given the parameters of the post, for NFHS, you've got nothing.

[Welpe]

NCAA

The definition of a passer was just changed recently removing the requirement that the forward pass must be legal. So if a QB is beyond the line when he throws but his hit late, roughing the passer applies still.

If it's 10 yards down field before he throws a forward pass, I'd be quite hesitant to throw for roughing unless he was very obviously hit late to the point I'd have thrown for a late hit anyways.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Adam

NFHS
I'm writing off the top of my head (for the sake of learning since I'm a FB rookie), but my understanding is that for RTP to be called, you have to have a legal forward pass. None of these situations fit that.

Is it the same if the QB is behind the LOS? I saw a play this year in a subvarsity game where a team ran an option play out of shotgun. The QB pitched the ball (not a forward pass) to the RB, and was hit by a defensive lineman right after he pitched it. A flag was thrown for roughing the passer. Our team was on defense, and we asked how it could have been roughing the passer if there was no forward pass.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

If it's 10 yards down field before he throws a forward pass, I'd be quite hesitant to throw for roughing unless he was very obviously hit late to the point I'd have thrown for a late hit anyways.

My thoughts on this sort of play is that players still have protection against unnecessary roughness, but if it's a clean hit, well, that's what all the armor is for. Since the OP described the tackle as something that I would normally consider a clean hit, I'm not going to penalize the defense for this.
If B takes two steps after the ball is gone and drives himself into the A illegal passer, I've definitely got PF for UR, in addition to IFP. We'll be replaying the down.