Official "banned" for flagging band

[jchamp]

There are hardly any bands in the Vegas valley that are able to distract the players, sadly enough. The directors do a pretty good job of policing themselves. But they're so small I don't think it would affect the action anymore than the PA guy who shouts "It's a REVERSE!" over the loudspeaker.

With a couple of exceptions, there's hardly any CROWDS large enough to be noticed. Sad state of affairs in high school football here.

[MD Longhorn]

Doesn't really matter if there are a few states who don't find it problematic that the crowd can use artificial noisemakers to disrupt the opposing teams signals, even though I find that very very odd.

It DOES matter that there is such a rule in Texas, where this game was played.

It DOES matter that an official chose to enforce the rule (after 2 warnings, neither of which were actually required to be given), and is being banned from the district for enforcing a rule.

It DOES matter that the official's organization publicly commented that he was wrong (whether he was or was not ... since when is this ok for junior high officials????)

It DOES matter that the official's organization is not backing their official against this district and allowing the district to determine, in contradiction to what the state has put in writing, which rules to enforce or not enforce.

And every single one of you should be bothered by this.

[csb1971]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Doesn't really matter if there are a few states who don't find it problematic that the crowd can use artificial noisemakers to disrupt the opposing teams signals, even though I find that very very odd.

It DOES matter that there is such a rule in Texas, where this game was played.

It DOES matter that an official chose to enforce the rule (after 2 warnings, neither of which were actually required to be given), and is being banned from the district for enforcing a rule.

It DOES matter that the official's organization publicly commented that he was wrong (whether he was or was not ... since when is this ok for junior high officials????)

It DOES matter that the official's organization is not backing their official against this district and allowing the district to determine, in contradiction to what the state has put in writing, which rules to enforce or not enforce.

And every single one of you should be bothered by this.

Agree completely. It would be one thing if it wasn't written down as a rule or if he somehow overstepped his boundries, but he didn't. Heck, if anything, he gave the band director a couple of chances to knock it off. The fact that an official's organization is implicitly allowing a school to ignore written rules by supporting the decision to boot the ref is just plain wrong.

[MD Longhorn]

From what I can tell, the official gave the band one warning, basically telling them to cut it out, and then on his way back told the coach - coach kind of ignored him and gave him a "ok, got it" dismissive head nod. The very next series they did it again and he flagged it.

And, as far as "spirit of the rule" goes, they were apparently only playing while they were on defense, and the first outburst was not music, but rather intentionally distracting noise (everyone playing randomly all at once). I didn't ask about the "music/outburst" that drew the flag - whether it was music or not.

I have a couple of emails out to higher-ups up there, but neither has responded. As quickly as one of them usually replies to me, I bet he's been told not to comment on the matter.

[JRutledge]

I have found that this is more of a cultural thing as to what part of the country or maybe where the game is being played. There are certain schools that do play during play around here and most do not. It usually is not that big of a deal when the band is playing. I do not know that I would flag the band, I would likely get the game management to do something if it was really a problem. Other than that I am sure the official was in the right, but wondering if some other way could have solved this. And if I was on a crew where the partner was asked to leave, I would be leaving too. Officiate the game on your own if that is how you are going to be.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Doesn't really matter if there are a few states who don't find it problematic that the crowd can use artificial noisemakers to disrupt the opposing teams signals, even though I find that very very odd.

FWIW, musical instruments are generally not considered to be artificial noisemakers. Artificial noisemakers are air horns, sirens and such. Instruments are natural noise amplifiers.

That being said, if he correctly enforced the rule, I don't see why his association wouldn't support him.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have found that this is more of a cultural thing as to what part of the country or maybe where the game is being played. There are certain schools that do play during play around here and most do not. It usually is not that big of a deal when the band is playing. I do not know that I would flag the band, I would likely get the game management to do something if it was really a problem. Other than that I am sure the official was in the right, but wondering if some other way could have solved this. And if I was on a crew where the partner was asked to leave, I would be leaving too. Officiate the game on your own if that is how you are going to be.

Peace

Makes sense. To add to this, though, is that it was a junior high game. Meaning "game management" likely includes a parent running concessions and another parent collecting at the gate.

Incidentally, to add to the noisemaker comment - I am being told the first mess of noise was not music, but WAS just noise - random sound from various instruments -timed to mess up the other team - which is what drew the first "cut it out" from the official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Makes sense. To add to this, though, is that it was a junior high game. Meaning "game management" likely includes a parent running concessions and another parent collecting at the gate.

Incidentally, to add to the noisemaker comment - I am being told the first mess of noise was not music, but WAS just noise - random sound from various instruments -timed to mess up the other team - which is what drew the first "cut it out" from the official.

And this is why I do not want to work these games in the first place. You have no idea what the structure is or who is in charge. And you certainly have very disjointed structure to what takes place. I will pass if you cannot figure out who is in charge and what rules we might be under. I get wanting to work and learn, but at the HS level I know what the rules are and what the standards are. Maybe if officials stop working these games things will change. Oh well, I am so glad I have been around long enough not to have to feel like I have to do these games.

Peace

[waltjp]

Here's what I don't understand -

The Hudson Middle School band was doing what bands do: Playing ... Hudson had the ball

Have the coach tell his own band to be quiet.

And this -

After the band left the stadium, the official was ordered to leave, too.

The officials are a team. If one goes, we all go.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

FWIW, musical instruments are generally not considered to be artificial noisemakers. Artificial noisemakers are air horns, sirens and such. Instruments are natural noise amplifiers.

So are vuvuzelas.

[bigjohn]

Figured those were soccer horns walt but I still had to yahoo it! I don't google anything!

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by waltjp

So are vuvuzelas.

Yes, they are annoying but they aren't artificial noisemakers. So, unfortunately, they are allowed to be used at HS soccer matches.

On the upside, they are so annoying almost no one uses them anymore. The year of the World Cup they were at about 75% of my games. This year, I've only heard one.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Yes, they are annoying but they aren't artificial noisemakers.

Proof that natural != good.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Proof that natural != good.

So, would you allow them in a HS basketball game? I wouldn't, but the rule is the same, it seems.

I disagree that band instruments aren't artificial noise makers.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Proof that natural != good.

Nerd.