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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:10am
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Inadvertant whistle

Fellas,

First of all I am just a coach trying to learn the rules as the season goes along. I know I do not spend as much time as you on the rules.

Our situation last night was in a JV game. Punting situation where the punter drops the ball, then the ball was tipped/blocked on the punt. The ball goes around and the receiving team picks it up then fumbles it. While the ball is on the ground the whistle blows and they award the ball to the Receiving team. While I think this is correct because of the blocked punt and the receiving team gaining possession of the football prior to the inadvertant whistle, it got me thinking.

When, if anytime, does the offense/kicking team get to choose the play or the down over on an inadvertant whistle? I vaguely remember this scenerio could be true.

Thanks for all the help!
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:14am
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Inadvertent whistle??? Don't you realize we have a Green Bay - Seattle debacle to talk about?!?!?!

(Just kidding...)

The offense USUALLY gets the choice on an IW. The kicking team not so much - they would have to be the team in possession when the IW occurred.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:27am
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Coach, if you have a particular play in mind, it might be quicker just to ask that. Otherwise, someone (like me) will just post the IW rule and you can read it for yourself. It has 4 major provisions, concerning pass/kick, other loose ball, ball in possession, or accepted penalty plays.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:50am
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Please post the rule. I would love to read it and see if I can make any sense of it. I am just trying to learn more about the rules. As far as a specific play....here is one.

1.It is 1st and 10. Ball is handed off on an iso play and the ball carrier runs ten yards when the ball comes loose. No one has control and the official blows the whistle. What should happen? What choices does the offense have?

2. The ball is being punted and the snap is such that it goes over the head of the punter. The punter picks up the ball then fumbles it. The whistle is blown while the ball is loose. What should happen? What choices does the punting team have?

Thanks for the help!
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitveer View Post
Please post the rule. I would love to read it and see if I can make any sense of it. I am just trying to learn more about the rules. As far as a specific play....here is one.

1.It is 1st and 10. Ball is handed off on an iso play and the ball carrier runs ten yards when the ball comes loose. No one has control and the official blows the whistle. What should happen? What choices does the offense have?
Offense can take the ball where the runner was when the IW blew, or replay the down.

Quote:
2. The ball is being punted and the snap is such that it goes over the head of the punter. The punter picks up the ball then fumbles it. The whistle is blown while the ball is loose. What should happen? What choices does the punting team have?
Same choice.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitveer View Post
Please post the rule. I would love to read it and see if I can make any sense of it. I am just trying to learn more about the rules. As far as a specific play....here is one.

1.It is 1st and 10. Ball is handed off on an iso play and the ball carrier runs ten yards when the ball comes loose. No one has control and the official blows the whistle. What should happen? What choices does the offense have?

2. The ball is being punted and the snap is such that it goes over the head of the punter. The punter picks up the ball then fumbles it. The whistle is blown while the ball is loose. What should happen? What choices does the punting team have?

Thanks for the help!
The last in possession gets to choose either the result of the play up to the point of the fumble, or replay the down. In your first play, the offense is likely to take the 10 yards (unless it was 4th and 11). In your second, they will likely replay the down.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:21am
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Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
Offense can take the ball where the runner was when the IW blew, or replay the down.



Same choice.
I assume by these you are assuming that the runner is in the same place he was when the ball came loose. If so, your answer is correct...if not then it's not, since the new dead ball spot is where the ball became loose (assuming A takes the result of the play instead of replaying).

Also, if I'm interpreting the rule correctly, K would want to replay the down in #2 since it'd give the ball to R (assuming that it's 4th down when they're punting).
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:31am
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Smile Here's your rule...

4-2-3...
"An inadvertent whistle ends the down. Inadvertent whistles are administered as follows:

a. The down shall be replayed if, during a down or during a down in which the penalty for a foul is declined, and inadvertent whistle is sounded while a legal forward pass or snap is in flight, or during a legal kick.

b. The team last in possession may choose to either put the ball in play where possession was lost or replay the down if, during a down or during a down in which the penalty for a foul is declined, an inadvertent whistle is sounded while the ball is loose following a backward pass, fumble, illegal forward pass or illegal kick.

c. The team in possession may choose to either accept the results of the play at the dead-ball spot or replay the down if, during a down or during a down in which the penalty for a foul is declined, an inadvertent whistle is sounded while the ball is in player possession.

d. The penalty shall be administered as determined by the basic spot and takes precedence over inadvertent whistle administration if, during a down, a live-ball foul occurs prior to the inadvertent whistle and the penalty is accepted."
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:31am
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Originally Posted by cdoug View Post
I assume by these you are assuming that the runner is in the same place he was when the ball came loose. If so, your answer is correct...if not then it's not, since the new dead ball spot is where the ball became loose (assuming A takes the result of the play instead of replaying)..
Um ... that's what he said. Same answer for both: Offense can take the ball where the runner was when the IW blew, or replay the down.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:35am
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Um ... that's what he said. Same answer for both: Offense can take the ball where the runner was when the IW blew, or replay the down.
Okay...I guess I was assuming (incorrectly, evidently) that the ball had bounced and/or gone somewhere other than where possession was lost. Sorry.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:52am
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Um ... that's what he said. Same answer for both: Offense can take the ball where the runner was when the IW blew, or replay the down.
I think his point is that where the runner is when the whistle blows is of no consequence. Where the runner was when the ball came loose is what matters. They could be the same place, but chances are there will be at least a couple of yards difference between the two.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 01:26pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I think his point is that where the runner is when the whistle blows is of no consequence. Where the runner was when the ball came loose is what matters. They could be the same place, but chances are there will be at least a couple of yards difference between the two.
Yes, that's what I was going at...I guess I should have stated it more clearly.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:52pm
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Originally Posted by cdoug View Post
I assume by these you are assuming that the runner is in the same place he was when the ball came loose. If so, your answer is correct...if not then it's not, since the new dead ball spot is where the ball became loose (assuming A takes the result of the play instead of replaying).

Also, if I'm interpreting the rule correctly, K would want to replay the down in #2 since it'd give the ball to R (assuming that it's 4th down when they're punting).
Yes, it's the spot of the fumble, which is one reason we throw a beanbag there.

I was trying to keep it simple for the non-official who asked the original question.
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Old Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitveer View Post
When, if anytime, does the offense/kicking team get to choose the play or the down over on an inadvertant whistle? I vaguely remember this scenerio could be true.
Coach, if the whistle sounds while a legal kick, legal forward pass or legal snap is in flight, the down must be replayed.

Otherwise, the team last in control has the option to take the result of the play or replay the down.

An accepted penalty prior to the IW trumps all.
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Old Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:11pm
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REPLY: Coach, in the play you posted, the receiving team actually did have a choice: take the ball at the spot where they fumbled it, or have the down replayed. Of course, they would never choose that one. Think of it this way...the only times a team does NOT have a choice to make is if the inadvertent whistle blows (1) during a legal forward pass, or (2) during a legal scrimmage or free kick.
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