AP on inadvertant whistle??

[imagomer]

I thought I had learned that this was the case, but now I can't find it. Two situations have gone against me lately, and I'm entertaining the notion that I may be the one who has it wrong. Ball hits top of backboard. Officiall blows it dead, then is reminded by me that the top is not OOB. I'm thinking this is inadvertant and should go to AP. He disagrees and awards ball to "rebounder." Next sitch: Whistle causes ball to be dead when official starts to call a backcourt violation, then realizes himself that my defense had touched the ball last. (this was still a contested ball in the backcourt with neither team yet in control when the whistle was blown because the offense had been the first to touch, not a case of the offense simply running back there and catching and controlling the ball immediately). Should possession have been determined by AP for either of these? Maybe I'm not clear on "inadvertant" versus "oops, my bad."

[mick]

Originally posted by imagomer
I thought I had learned that this was the case, but now I can't find it. Two situations have gone against me lately, and I'm entertaining the notion that I may be the one who has it wrong. Ball hits top of backboard. Officiall blows it dead, then is reminded by me that the top is not OOB. I'm thinking this is inadvertant and should go to AP. He disagrees and awards ball to "rebounder." Next sitch: Whistle causes ball to be dead when official starts to call a backcourt violation, then realizes himself that my defense had touched the ball last. (this was still a contested ball in the backcourt with neither team yet in control when the whistle was blown because the offense had been the first to touch, not a case of the offense simply running back there and catching and controlling the ball immediately). Should possession have been determined by AP for either of these? Maybe I'm not clear on "inadvertant" versus "oops, my bad."

From what I understand:

Sitch 1. No team control --> use arrow;

Sitch 2. Offense did not lose team control --> ball to offense.
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by imagomer
I thought I had learned that this was the case, but now I can't find it. Two situations have gone against me lately, and I'm entertaining the notion that I may be the one who has it wrong. Ball hits top of backboard. Officiall blows it dead, then is reminded by me that the top is not OOB. I'm thinking this is inadvertant and should go to AP. He disagrees and awards ball to "rebounder." Next sitch: Whistle causes ball to be dead when official starts to call a backcourt violation, then realizes himself that my defense had touched the ball last. (this was still a contested ball in the backcourt with neither team yet in control when the whistle was blown because the offense had been the first to touch, not a case of the offense simply running back there and catching and controlling the ball immediately). Should possession have been determined by AP for either of these? Maybe I'm not clear on "inadvertant" versus "oops, my bad."

In the first case, if the ball hit the top of the backboard on a try, AND the whisle was blown before the rebound, then go with the arrow. If the whistle didn't come until after the rebound, or (unlikely) the ball hit the top of the backboard on a pass, give the ball to the team in posession.

[imagomer]

So, Team Control status is the key. Thanks

[Kelvin green]

I disagree on the one that hits the top of the backboard. You go POI unless no team control, but if the ball dropped thru the hoop and the player scores POI would be throw-in.

It depends on what happens with the ball

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I disagree on the one that hits the top of the backboard. You go POI unless no team control, but if the ball dropped thru the hoop and the player scores POI would be throw-in.

It depends on what happens with the ball

Not under NFHS rules. There's no POI except for double and simultaneous fouls.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Not under NFHS rules. There's no POI except for double and simultaneous fouls.

So on an inadvertant whistle, you go with the AP, even if there was team control, or even player control?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Not under NFHS rules. There's no POI except for double and simultaneous fouls.

I agree with both of you.

1) If the inadvertant whistle happened during a try, as above, if the ball subsequently goes in, you count the basket and then the team scored on will get an end-line throw-in. Good catch by Kelvin.
2) If the inadvertant whistle happened during as try and the ball didn't subsequently go in, you go with an AP. Good catch by Tony.

If, as Bob J. said above, you (unlikely) rule it as an inadvertant whistle during a pass, then you would go to POI and the team in possession would get a throw-in.

All these situations are covered completely under new case book play 7.5.4:

7.5.4 SITUATION:
An official sounds his her whistle accidentally:
(b) while team A is in control and passing among teammates
(c) while A's unsuccessful try attempt is in flight
(d) while A's successful try attempt is in flight.
RULING:
The ball is put in play at the point of interruption.
(b) Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where the ball was when the whistle was accidentally sounded.
(c) The ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure.
(d) even though, by rule, there is no team control during this dead ball period, the ball would be given to team B for a throw-in anywhere along the end line. Team B would have clearly received the ball had the official not accidentally sounded his/her whistle.
- 7-4-4; 4-12-3,6; 4-36.

[Ref Daddy]

SECTION 10 CORRECTABLE ERRORS
ART. 1 . . . Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in:

a. Failure to award a merited free throw.
b. Awarding an unmerited free throw.
c. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
d. Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
e. Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

ART. 2 . . . In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

ART. 3 . . . If in Article 1e the error is made while the clock is running and the ball dead, it must be recognized by an official before the second live ball.

ART. 4 . . . If the error is a free throw by the wrong player or at the wrong

basket, or the awarding of an unmerited free throw, the free throw and the activity during it, other than unsporting, flagrant, intentional or technical fouls, shall be canceled.

ART. 5 . . . Points scored, consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified. Errors because of free-throw attempts by the wrong player or at the wrong basket shall be corrected by applying 8-1 and 2.

ART. 6 . . . If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point at which it was interrupted to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
1) If the inadvertant whistle happened during a try, as above, if the ball subsequently goes in, you count the basket and then the team scored on will get an end-line throw-in. Good catch by Kelvin.
2) If the inadvertant whistle happened during as try and the ball didn't subsequently go in, you go with an AP. Good catch by Tony.

If, as Bob J. said above, you (unlikely) rule it as an inadvertant whistle during a pass, then you would go to POI and the team in possession would get a throw-in.

All three of these situations are actually resumed at the POI; and covered quite nicely in 4-36-2.

Gotta know those definitions!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

All three of these situations are actually resumed at the POI; and covered quite nicely in 4-36-2.

Gotta know those definitions!!

Um, on the case book cite given, wasn't there a sentence just after the "RULING" that said "The ball is put in play at the point of interruption", and that particular sentence covered the 3 situations following from that case book play? No?

Or am I missing your point?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, on the case book cite given, wasn't there a sentence just after the "RULING" that said "The ball is put in play at the point of interruption", and that particular sentence covered the 3 situations following from that case book play? No?

You're grumpy this morning! Yes, the case play says it. But your post didn't. Your post sounded like, "You've these two situations. But if happens the way Bob says, then you go to the POI."

I was just trying to bring out the point that they were all resumed at the POI, not just Bob's sitch.

Still grumpy? Or are you happy now? No? Which dwarf would you like to be? Doc? Sneezy?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

Which dwarf would you like to be? Doc? Sneezy? [/B][/QUOTE]Well....Dopey seems to be taken....



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