Last play of GB Seattle

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Texref

From 2011 case book for NFL:

A.R. 8.28 NOT A SIMULTANEOUS CATCH First-and-10 on A20. A2 controls a pass in the air at the A40. B3 then also gets control of the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground. Ruling: A’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as A2 gains control first and retains control.

A.R. 8.29 NOT A SIMULTANEOUS CATCH First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground. Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as B3 gains control first and retains control. (B

Was the play in question tonight not one of these two scenarios? Would the cases be handled differently in NCAA and NFHS?

[Texref]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Was the play in question tonight not one of these two scenarios? Would the cases be handled differently in NCAA and NFHS?

I don't ref football, but yes I believe that both of these case plays were the play tonight. Both say possession in the air. Not sure what I'm missing, but I think it should be an interception by rule. Hs and ncaa, I don't have a clue, like I said, not a fb ref.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Was the play in question tonight not one of these two scenarios? Would the cases be handled differently in NCAA and NFHS?

The top one is.

And not it would not be handled much differently other than the fact that in NCAA and NF the players do not have to get two feet down to establish control of some kind. Even in NCAA you have to complete the process of the catch and coming to the ground would matter with at least a foot.

Peace

[Texref]

Btw, here is a link to NFL rules and case book...

NFL.com Rulebook

[just another ref]

Without being burdened by rules knowledge on the subject, NFL or any other level, here is what I saw: Packer defender went up and caught the ball at its highest point, gathering it to his chest with both arms locked tightly around it,
where it remained securely in this position until the defender landed on the ground. At around the same time, the receiver grabbed the ball with both hands, then briefly released with one hand to get a deeper hold with that hand and forearm as the pile went to the ground.

If, by rule, this is a touchdown, the rule sucks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Without being burdened by rules knowledge on the subject, NFL or any other level, here is what I saw: Packer defender went up and caught the ball at its highest point, gathering it to his chest with both arms locked tightly around it,
where it remained securely in this position until the defender landed on the ground. At around the same time, the receiver grabbed the ball with both hands, then briefly released with one hand to get a deeper hold with that hand and forearm as the pile went to the ground.

If, by rule, this is a touchdown, the rule sucks.

The rule is in place so that we will not be splitting hairs over who had the ball first when they have not fulfilled other parts of the catch. I think the rule is fine, this was just on National TV and ESPN has their panties in a bunch over this call on their network (remember they get ratings buy ranting about this all day).

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The rule is in place so that we will not be splitting hairs over who had the ball first when they have not fulfilled other parts of the catch. I think the rule is fine, this was just on National TV and ESPN has their panties in a bunch over this call on their network (remember they get ratings buy ranting about this all day).

Peace

I know I'll be listening to music on the radio tomorrow.

But part of the problem is, whether this was the right call or not, the credibility of the officials has been destroyed over the last few weeks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I know I'll be listening to music on the radio tomorrow.

But part of the problem is, whether this was the right call or not, the credibility of the officials has been destroyed over the last few weeks.

All the media has done a great job in making everything into a major case as if they would not complain otherwise. This is why these guys IMO should have never done this in the first place. The s**t storm is coming no matter what they do. And many of their careers will basically be over as they know it. That is OK for a guy or two that only did this at the very end of their career and had nothing to lose, but for those that still could work, now they will be marred with this crap for some time.

Peace

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Without being burdened by rules knowledge on the subject, NFL or any other level, here is what I saw: Packer defender went up and caught the ball at its highest point, gathering it to his chest with both arms locked tightly around it,
where it remained securely in this position until the defender landed on the ground. At around the same time, the receiver grabbed the ball with both hands, then briefly released with one hand to get a deeper hold with that hand and forearm as the pile went to the ground.

If, by rule, this is a touchdown, the rule sucks.

I would not use the word "caught" in your post. A catch is defined as having control of the ball and two feet or something other than the feet down inbounds. By rule a player CANNOT catch a ball while being in the air. All he can do in the air is gain control. A catch is not completed until he comes to the ground. In the play, only 1 foot touched down. The Seattle player had both feet down.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Without being burdened by rules knowledge on the subject, NFL or any other level, here is what I saw: Packer defender went up and caught the ball at its highest point, gathering it to his chest with both arms locked tightly around it,
where it remained securely in this position until the defender landed on the ground. At around the same time, the receiver grabbed the ball with both hands, then briefly released with one hand to get a deeper hold with that hand and forearm as the pile went to the ground.

If, by rule, this is a touchdown, the rule sucks.

NFL rules suck altogether. There are many changes made during the season that aren't in the printed rulebook. Memos, interpretations, etc. are sent to the officials during the season that are in all actuality rule changes, but they aren't in the public version of the rule book. What those of us non-NFL officials, fans, and media have access to is not the complete version of rules that those officiating in the NFL get. This is one reason why you should never trust what the media is trying to feed you. You'll learn more about football no matter what the level is if you turn off the volume.

[JugglingReferee]

Oh how I miss Official Review on NFL Total Access.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Oh how I miss Official Review on NFL Total Access.

The show would be too long this season.....

[KMBReferee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Oh how I miss Official Review on NFL Total Access.

Doesn't help things that Mike Periera was out in the Sierra Mountains last night. You'd think he and his wife would have made that trip before or after football season. He was out to dinner last night for the end of the Sunday Night Football game, too.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

Doesn't help things that Mike Periera was out in the Sierra Mountains last night. You'd think he and his wife would have made that trip before or after football season. He was out to dinner last night for the end of the Sunday Night Football game, too.

Maybe it's their anniversary or her birthday. Plus FOX doesn't have games on Monday night.

As someone who doesn't officiate football I just want to make sure I'm clear on another aspect of the play. Am I right on assuming based on the responses here that you are not going to call Pass Interference on a game-ending Hail Mary? And if not, is the philosophy the same for a Hail Mary on the last play of the 2nd quarter?

[KMBReferee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Maybe it's their anniversary or her birthday. Plus FOX doesn't have games on Monday night.

As someone who doesn't officiate football I just want to make sure I'm clear on another aspect of the play. Am I right on assuming based on the responses here that you are not going to call Pass Interference on a game-ending Hail Mary? And if not, is the philosophy the same for a Hail Mary on the last play of the 2nd quarter?

I didn't think about the chance that it was an anniversary or birthday. He did mention going to dinner on Sunday; that may have been part of it.

I've watched football way longer than I've called, but I've never heard of a pass interference call being made on a Hail Mary. Then again, when has there been a PI situation on a Hail Mary that may have made this much difference? Tate was the guy that pushed off and made the (potential) difference on that being an interception or a dual possession TD. I would like to think an NFLRA ref would have called it, but I dunno for sure.

But also, when have we seen an ending to ANY football game at any level like this? This is one of those freaks occurrences that probably happen once every 20 yrs or so, if not longer. I guarantee you there are a lot of referees on every level that are glad they don't have their names placed in infamy by calling last night's game.