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Old Sun Sep 16, 2012, 01:05am
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BYU-Utah end of game

Did anyone here see the end of BYU-Utah where on the last play of the game Utah blocked a field goal and then the fans rushed the field while the ball was live causing a 15 yd live ball penalty giving BYU a 2nd chance. FWIW BYU missed the 2nd attempt

Last edited by paulsonj72; Sun Sep 16, 2012 at 01:15am.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:37am
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What would you have if this happened in HS. The rule book says you do not extend by an untimed down for non contact and unsportsmanlike foul?
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:44am
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Originally Posted by mtridge View Post
What would you have if this happened in HS. The rule book says you do not extend by an untimed down for non contact and unsportsmanlike foul?
IP is not unsportsmanlike. You would definitely extend the period if the offense was prevented from scoring because of IP (if not ... hey, why not just put 46 people out there on the final play of a game)
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:32am
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
IP is not unsportsmanlike.
You're flagging fans for IP? 9-6-3 & 4 mention only team personnel, and every other provision seems to refer to players, substitutes, and replaced players.

I don't think I'd want an untimed down for fans rushing the field, whether we have a flag or no. I think I'd want to put time back on the clock (if it's running) and resume from there. 1-1-6
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:49am
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
You don't think their has to be? Is'nt it only fare to have one?
No, not if we're putting time back on the clock. You want to put time back on AND have 1 untimed?
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:54am
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
You're flagging fans for IP? 9-6-3 & 4 mention only team personnel, and every other provision seems to refer to players, substitutes, and replaced players.

I don't think I'd want an untimed down for fans rushing the field, whether we have a flag or no. I think I'd want to put time back on the clock (if it's running) and resume from there. 1-1-6
Just curious - what would you call if for whatever reason, during normal play, a fan (or hundreds of them) interfered with a play?

Also, the players were on the field too. They didn't just stand aside and let the fans by - they ran out to celebrate when the kick was blocked, but the play was still going.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:06pm
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
Well, if team personnel are on the field that makes it easy, right? IP is the way to go and solves your clock problem to boot.

As for what I would call: do we have a good general answer here? Some cases might call for UNS (Stanford band?), others for just clearing the field and trying to finish the game. I suppose a worst-case scenario would be one with inadequate security and potential violence, where you'd just suspend the thing and let the state sort it out.
But if we're just calling Unsportsmanlike, then like you said, there's no untimed down.

Let's be more specific than.

Say there is 1 second on the clock when the play begins. The offense down by 6 throws a pass deep to a receiver that somehow became clearly wide open, and he's likely, but not sure to score, but someone in the band or on the sideline (not a coach or player) actively prevents the ball from being caught at the 25 yard line.

USC? IP? With no time left on the clock, it obviously matters.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:13pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
USC? IP? With no time left on the clock, it obviously matters.
I agree that it matters, and I don't think we have much of a substantial disagreement about what should happen next.

I can't see flagging IP with no rules justification for doing so. It might be that USC or some penalty is in order. But I'd use 1-1-6 to justify extending the game with or without a flag.

I don't think 1-1-6 is license to change definitions: you wouldn't flag a band member for DPI if he contacted a receiver while the ball was in the air, right? So why flag him for IP?
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:17pm
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Originally Posted by maven View Post
I agree that it matters, and I don't think we have much of a substantial disagreement about what should happen next.

I can't see flagging IP with no rules justification for doing so. It might be that USC or some penalty is in order. But I'd use 1-1-6 to justify extending the game with or without a flag.

I don't think 1-1-6 is license to change definitions: you wouldn't flag a band member for DPI if he contacted a receiver while the ball was in the air, right? So why flag him for IP?
Fare enough - I sea your point.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:37pm
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I'd hope that an alert official would see the fans enter the playing field and stop the play. Then, get the fans off and resume. I see no justification for a foul here.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:44pm
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Originally Posted by Forksref View Post
I'd hope that an alert official would see the fans enter the playing field and stop the play. Then, get the fans off and resume. I see no justification for a foul here.
How... how would you stop them MID PLAY? These fans rushed the field after their team blocked the kick - because they thought it meant they won and didn't realize the play was still going.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:25pm
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Players come on the field but don't participate you either have UNS or IS (both non-player fouls). No extension of period. If they do participate you have a live ball IP and you would extend the period for one play.

We learned this the hard way after a similar play. Last play of game is crazy play with multiple fumbles and backward passes. Both H and visiting team thought down ended near the other side of the field so they come on to the field. All realize the ball is still live so they retreat. H is pretty sure players came off the sideline but he had mentally ended the play/game and so he didn't have a flag. Home team coach and AD scream crew off the field. They probably would have been even more upset if we had flagged the visitors, marched off the penalty and then still declared the game over.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 05:23pm
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In Fed there are actually at least 2 provisions that seem to apply.

9-8-2 concludes: "In no other case, except as in 2-6, shall any nonplayer other than an entering substitute enter without the referee’s permission."

And then there's 9-9-1. It could be argued that an innocent act by someone who doesn't know what's going on isn't "unfair", but if it works to someone's disadvantage in the game, I think it must be considered so.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:02pm
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What if you had some official IAW while the ball was loose?
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
In Fed there are actually at least 2 provisions that seem to apply.

9-8-2 concludes: "In no other case, except as in 2-6, shall any nonplayer other than an entering substitute enter without the referee’s permission."

And then there's 9-9-1. It could be argued that an innocent act by someone who doesn't know what's going on isn't "unfair", but if it works to someone's disadvantage in the game, I think it must be considered so.
I would use the elastic clause granted me in the "unfair act" section of the rulebook and make things as right as I could. BTW, Mike Pereira said virtually the same thing on his Twitter feed.
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