BYU-UTAH

gsf23 · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 01:24pm

Last night during BYU-UTAH game an interesting question came up I thought.

Utah's center Andrew Bogut goes up for a slam with BYU's Chris Miles. Bogut hung on the rim a bit, but may have been trying to avoid MIles, when he did come down, he landed on top of Miles and both fell to the floor. While on the floor, Miles gave Bogut a pretty good kick in the back.

Miles was giving a T for the kick but a point that the announcers brought up was could that be considered fighting, same as throwing a punch?

Bogut wasn't on top of Miles at the time, so it wasn't a kick to get off me, and Miles really did wind up and kick Bogut fairly hard I thought.

So just thoughts on if anyone out there would have considered this fighting and given him the ejection or does it have to be a punch for that?

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 01:41pm

Had to be there. It could be considered fighting, but in most cases I think a T would take care of it.

gsf23 · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Had to be there. It could be considered fighting, but in most cases I think a T would take care of it.

That's what I thought most would say, was kinda hoping someone else saw the game but it was on pretty late last night. I guess I wouldn't have had a problem if they did eject for the kick, just never seen it happen before.

Kelvin green · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 01:55pm

I saw play and did not think it was fighting. I do not know the rule for the NCAA. I think this will be one for the Mountain West to review. The kick was cheap enough he could get a one game suspension.

Jurassic Referee · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I saw play and did not think it was fighting. I do not know the rule for the NCAA. I think this will be one for the Mountain West to review. The kick was cheap enough he could get a one game suspension.

The NCAA fighting definition is just about the same as the NFHS one. It includes an attempt or actually striking somebody with a leg or foot. Note that you just have to attempt to try and kick someone, and you could get tossed for "fighting".

RookieDude · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 02:30pm

I watched some of that game.
When I was watching, a player had fallen down and Bogut somehow tripped and came down on the player's back with his knee. I thought Bogut may have given the player on the ground a "little extra" push with his other knee when getting up.
The officials were right on top of it...and stepped between the players just in case there was some type of retaliation.

Maybe Miles was retaliating for his perceived knee in the back from Bogut. Doesn't mean it's right...just a thought.

Back In The Saddle · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 03:31pm

It was an ugly game. They brought in some of the Mountain West's biggest dogs to call it, and it's no wonder. I figured they'd toss Miles for the kick, but they chose not to. There were two more T's called before they could get it all sorted out. I know that in "fight situations" Dave Hall (the R on this one) says he likes to keep the penalties as even as possible. He tries not to throw somebody from just one team, unless it's really waranted. Perhaps that philosophy came into play here too.

Did any of you notice the correctible error in the first half? I think it may have been after a media time-out, but they put (allowed?) the wrong Utah player on the line. It should have been Bogut shooting. The caught it after the first free throw and put Bogut on the line. I guess it can happen to any of us.

RunninRef · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 01, 2005, 11:40pm

I saw the game and Hall - (the R) - was all over the game in the first half. He called 95% of the whistles and his partners gave up, I think. That's why the correctable error happened. The were waiting for Hall to call it like he did everything else in the first half. They finally got the correct player to the free throw line. Even at the D-1 level, errors can happen!!

In my opinion, the other two officials didn't want to take over the game like Hall did the first half. When the kick happened, they split the players apart and called the bare minimum - (a T on the BYU player who kicked Bogut). Two other T's followed - one on each team for grabbing each other and acting tough. The BYU player should have been tosssed for fighting. Even though a weak kick, it's just like throwing a weak punch - it's still a punch!

It was a case of just getting by with the minimum call, which is not a bad idea in most cases. Fighting can't be tolerated and the kick did and could have lead to a higher affair last night. You need to send a clear messsage and toss the player!