Uncle Ernie's May Quiz

[mikesears]

Originally posted by ABoselli
5.a) A 4/6 B10. With 17 seconds remaining in the game, Team B leads 24-20. A33 takes a handoff and runs to the B-2 yard line where he fumbles the ball. The ball rolls into the end zone where B43 picks it up and runs it out to the B-4 yard line where he is hit and fumbles the ball. The ball touches A71 at the B-5 yard line and then hits the goal line pylon. Two seconds remain in the game.


That's a B fumble, not an A fumble.

I guess I was the guy who was turned around.

You are correct. B's fumble touching B's pylon making this a safety.

Thanks for setting me in the right direction.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by mikesears

I guess I was the guy who was turned around.

You are correct. B's fumble touching B's pylon making this a safety.

Thanks for setting me in the right direction.

Me too guys . I had this one all screwed up . MY BAD!

[mikesears]

Originally posted by sm_bbcoach

TB, B 1/10 @ B20, clock on the snap


I think you missed this part of what James said. It was hidden pretty well.

Mike:
Please expalin what I missed? I am now not sure of the force deal! [/QUOTE]

Bottom line is that my ruling was wrong because I got turned around.

But to answer your question, force is simply an action that provides movement to the ball. The original force will come from either a carry, snap, fumble, pass, or kick. If the original force would have put the ball into the endzone, we rule based upon who provided the original force that put the ball there. However, if a team provides a new force, like muffing a grounded loose ball and that NEW force is responsible for putting the ball into the endzone, we make our ruling based upon who provided the NEW force. Touching the ball is not a new force when the ball's original force carries it into the endzone.

Note that a new force cannot be added to a kick, pass, or fumble in flight. Also note that force is not a factor when determining who caused a kick to enter R's endzone because these are ALWAYS touchbacks.

Somebody correct me if I've given bad information here.

Thanks!

[James Neil]

Originally posted by mikesears

Mike:
Please expalin what I missed? I am now not sure of the force deal!

Bottom line is that my ruling was wrong because I got turned around.

But to answer your question, force is simply an action that provides movement to the ball. The original force will come from either a carry, snap, fumble, pass, or kick. If the original force would have put the ball into the endzone, we rule based upon who provided the original force that put the ball there. However, if a team provides a new force, like muffing a grounded loose ball and that NEW force is responsible for putting the ball into the endzone, we make our ruling based upon who provided the NEW force. Touching the ball is not a new force when the ball's original force carries it into the endzone.

Note that a new force cannot be added to a kick, pass, or fumble in flight. Also note that force is not a factor when determining who caused a kick to enter R's endzone because these are ALWAYS touchbacks.

Somebody correct me if I've given bad information here.

Thanks!




[/QUOTE]All your information sounds correct to me and this is exactly what I was trying to illustrate with this play. That is until I got all turned around. Thanks for the clarification Mike

[Uncle Ernie]

Fellow men and women of the high contrast polyester...

Much credit is due for Jim. He does help me and thankfully he does. To set the record straight, here is what I do.

First, I gather 7-10 questions from different places. Examples include Rom Gilbert's site, old postings at McGriffs, various conference tests, the CCA test, etc.

Then I get the NCAA answers and fill them in. I send the questions to Jim (who for some weird reason looks up to me...somebody set him straight on that ) Jim takes the questions, which have an NCAA slant on them, and modifies them for Federation. He then posts them on the board.

I have Jim do it, because I usually screw up the rulings. He is much better at it than I am.

If you would like, I can add your eamail address to the NCAA quiz that I send out. It would be no problem. Let Jim know and he can get a hold of me.

Have a great day.
Uncle Ernie

[Bob M.]

When you read the original question 5a, it's clear that it was B's fumble that put the ball back into B's endzone where it became dead. That's the force. A71's touch is not a new force. The result is a SAFETY. NCAA rules concur.

In question 5b, I'm assuming that it's intended that A71's muff imparted a new force on the loose ball and caused it to enter B's EZ where it became dead upon hitting the pylon. Therefore, the result is a TB. Give B the ball 1-10 at their 20. Here, NCAA rules are different...Unless the loose ball had come to rest, B's fumble is still the force (they call it "impetus") that put the ball into the EZ. In NCAA rules, this would be a SAFETY as well.