Bean Bags!

JMN · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 18, 2003, 10:14am

I thought that I would call on the combined wisdom of this board (I miss Derock) to discuss a topic I don't think is avaibable for review in any mechanics manual. Maybe it's too easy to understand.

Under the NFHS and NCAA codes, in which situations is it mandatory to drop a bean bag? I know the mechanics differ a bit between codes. Please be specific with which code you're citing when posting.

Thanks, fellas.

Theisey · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 18, 2003, 11:10am

Buy youself a copy of the Officals Manual from the NFHS.
All the conditions for using a bag are documented there.
It's on those books that has a lot of good stuff in it, like mechanics for 4 and 5 man games.
We get it every other year (only updated every other year) as part of our chapter dues.

JMN · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 19, 2003, 12:21pm

Thanks, Theisey.

Can't believe in all these years that we never got one!

How about NCAA?

Theisey · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 19, 2003, 07:03pm

there is a summary page in each of the CAA mechanics manuals, which we use in NCAA games.

Ed Hickland · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 08:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by JMN
I thought that I would call on the combined wisdom of this board (I miss Derock) to discuss a topic I don't think is avaibable for review in any mechanics manual. Maybe it's too easy to understand.

Under the NFHS and NCAA codes, in which situations is it mandatory to drop a bean bag? I know the mechanics differ a bit between codes. Please be specific with which code you're citing when posting.

Thanks, fellas.

NFHS Officials Manual states:

A. The bean bag is to be dropped on the appropriate yard line in accordance with the situations calling for such action in this manual.

B. The bean bag is to serve as an aid to enforcement and not an absolute reference point.

Here are my instructions to my crew on using the bean bag.

- When the player possession is lost during the down - mandatory
- When you need to mark a spot and then to tend to the players

The new one this coming season, when possession of the ball following a scrimmage kick occurs. With the PSK enforcement this season you have to be able to mark the enforcement spot. In previous seasons, you returned to the previous spot.

One last and important caveat, DO NOT use your beanbag to throw at a spot. If you can't hustle to a spot, then unhustle yourself to another crew.

VA-Ump · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 25, 2003, 07:29am

There is at least one additional beanbagable situation for both FED and NCAA that I'm sure you include... marking the spot when ruling momentum.

HeyRef12 · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 29, 2003, 01:32pm

In regards to the Bean Bag question posted earlier, it is proper to drop a bean bag on those situations where possession is lost. Keep in mind that snaps from center and backward passes are not possession lost situations.

In addition, this year in Federation, officials need to drop a bean bag where a scrimmage kick is successfully fielded in the field of play so as to mark the Post Scrimmage kick spot (PSK) for penalty enforcement.

Bob M. · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 09:40am

You mention that a backward pass is not (??) a lost possession situation. I disagree. If a backward pass from beyond the neutral zone occurs, you had better mark the spot with a bean bag. That spot is the end of the related run and may become the spot of enforcement for a foul by the offense that occurs after the pass and before possession of the loose ball is regained. Correct?

Bob M. · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.
...That spot is the end of the related run and may become the spot of enforcement for a foul by the offense that occurs after the pass and before possession of the loose ball is regained....

Actually, to be more precise, the spot of the backward pass may become the enforcement spot for a foul by the offense during the pass, and will become the spot of enforcement for defensive fouls during the pass.

Sleeper · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 12:43pm

As a general rule, I was taught to bean bag fumbles, muffs and where punt's are caught. Some people do interceptions and backward passes, but I don't know that I understand the value.

Mike Simonds · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 02:07pm

Bob brings up some good points...

We need to mark the spot where the run ends for penalty enforcement.

For example, at the spot of the backward pass made beyond the neutral zone.

Player possession is given up at this spot, but team possession remains the same unless the defense intercepts or recovers the backwards pass.

Therefore we must be alert to know the sequence of events in order to properly administer the play.

Hey Sleeper, I've been a big fan of Monty Python for almost the past 30 years. How is your semi-pro officiating going? Our league starts a week from Saturday...

Sleeper · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 02:56pm

I had a good game during the pre-season and got picked up as a substitute. I am hoping for a more regular spot when one opens up. I found another league that needed help and I am hoping to work some there as well. I also picked up a 7 on 7 tournament. I am trying to get as many games as possible to suppliement my offseason workout I started a couple of weeks ago.

I have the two CD set of Monty Python's Greatest hits. Keeps me sane (although my sanity may be questionable at best).

Theisey · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 08:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleeper
..... Some people do interceptions and backward passes, but I don't know that I understand the value.

The value is this:
-Momentum may be involved on an interception.

-The spot of the backward pass when beyond the NZ is the end of a run and could be an enforcement spot for fouls by team-A

Ed Hickland · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 30, 2003, 09:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob M.
You mention that a backward pass is not (??) a lost possession situation. I disagree. If a backward pass from beyond the neutral zone occurs, you had better mark the spot with a bean bag. That spot is the end of the related run and may become the spot of enforcement for a foul by the offense that occurs after the pass and before possession of the loose ball is regained. Correct?

You are both correct. A backward pass involves a loss of player possession but not a loss of team possession.

You should drop a bean bag anytime player possession is lost becuase that will be the spot where the run ends and as Bob M mentioned it becomes the basic spot for enforcement.

On a backward pass or any loose ball play or situation the ball remains in team possession until the other team gains possession. It is important to note when that occurs because the time of the foul and how it is enforced may depend upon who has possession.

Bob M. · #15 (**permalink**) Thu May 01, 2003, 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleeper
As a general rule, I was taught to bean bag fumbles, muffs and where punt's are caught. Some people do interceptions and backward passes, but I don't know that I understand the value.

REPLY: Up until this season, there was no reason in Federation to bag the spot where a punt was caught unless it was inside B's 5 yardline and momentum was being ruled. Same for interceptions. This season, we'll need to bag the spot that punts are caught because of the potential for a PSK enforcement foul by B. However, I still contend that you absolutely must bag backward passes from beyond the neutral zone. Now, if it's a quick pass and possession is regained immediately, you can probably get away with leaving the bag tucked in your knickers, but if the pass falls loose, I would bag the spot of the pass immediately.