Bean Bags!

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Up until this season, there was no reason in Federation to bag the spot where a punt was caught unless it was inside B's 5 yardline and momentum was being ruled. Same for interceptions. This season, we'll need to bag the spot that punts are caught because of the potential for a PSK enforcement foul by B. However, I still contend that you absolutely must bag backward passes from beyond the neutral zone. Now, if it's a quick pass and possession is regained immediately, you can probably get away with leaving the bag tucked in your knickers, but if the pass falls loose, I would bag the spot of the pass immediately.

Interceptions do not need to be bagged because it is a loose ball play and the spot of enforcement is the previous spot.

For some reason backward passes I think you do not need a bean bag but Bob M. makes a good argument for it. On a backward pass player possession is lost even if momentarily. The enforcement spot during a loose ball would be the spot where the run ends.

[WVREF]

Keep in mind any foul by B prior to or during the backward pass, assuming that you've only had a running play up to this time, will be penalized from the spot of the backward pass. Not just fouls during the backward pass. These fouls are penalized from the spot of the RELATED RUN. This only applies to backward passes beyond the neutral zone. If the backward pass follows a loose ball play (forward pass, kick, etc.) then timing of the foul comes into play.

[Bob M.]

You're right....My fingers were typing faster than my brain was thinking. I realized it after I hit the "submit" button. Thanks for pointing that out.

[James Neil]

There’s another bagging that’s not been mentioned yet. How about when the QB is being dragged backward during a sack and the WH bags the forward progress spot.

[Sleeper]

I'm in Texas, so we are working NCAA and bag punts for PSK. On the backward pass, if the ball hits the ground, then so does the bean bag. Otherwise, I am still not sure why I would bag a completed backward pass.

[WVREF]

I don't know NCAA rules, but under NF a backward pass beyond the neutral zone ends the related run (whether complete or incomplete) and is an enforcement spot for fouls by B prior to the pass, and fouls by A prior to the pass if they occur beyond the spot of the pass.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by WVREF
I don't know NCAA rules, but under NF a backward pass beyond the neutral zone ends the related run (whether complete or incomplete) and is an enforcement spot for fouls by B prior to the pass, and fouls by A prior to the pass if they occur beyond the spot of the pass.

This is true but I came up with one play that would be an execption to this .

A 3/5 @ 50 A1 hands-off to A2. A2 runs to the B-45 and throws a backward pass to A3 standing at the B-48. A3 retreats to the A-45 and throws a completed forward pass to A88 who is down at the B20. During A2's run, A88 held B1 at the B-30.

here's two more to chew on

A 3/5 @ 50 A1 hands-off to A2 who runs to the B-45 and throws a backward pass to A3 standing at the B-48.
A3 runs out of bounds at the B-20 . During A2’s run , A88 held B1 at the B-30.

A 3/5 @ 50 A1 hands-off to A2 who runs to the B-45 and throws a backward pass to A3 standing at the B-48.
A3 runs out of bounds at the B-20 . During A3’s run , A88 held B1 at the B-40

[Bob M.]

A 3/5 @ 50 A1 hands-off to A2 who runs to the B-45 and throws a backward pass to A3 standing at the B-48.
A3 runs out of bounds at the B-20 . During A2’s run , A88 held B1 at the B-30. RULING: The basic spot of enforcement is the end of the related run, i.e. the spot of the backward pass (B's 45). Result is A, 3-10 @ A's 45.

A 3/5 @ 50 A1 hands-off to A2 who runs to the B-45 and throws a backward pass to A3 standing at the B-48.
A3 runs out of bounds at the B-20 . During A3’s run , A88 held B1 at the B-40. RULING: Since the foul occurred during A3's run, the basic spot is the end of his run, i.e. B's 20. The foul is at B's 40--behind the basic spot. Therefore the result is A's ball, 3-5 @ midfield.

By the way, NCAA rules do concur that the spot of the backward pass will become the enforcement spot for a foul by Team A prior to the pass if it's behind the spot of the foul. So, in my opinion, NCAA and Federation officials should bag the spot of the pass regardless of whether the pass is completed or not. Jim's first play points that out vividly. The results are the same for NCAA and Federation rules.

[stpetesteve]

Don't you also beanbag it on a free kick if there's first touching by the kicking team (in the first 10 yards)? That's what I've been told to do. That's why I hold the beanbag in my hand as a lines judges during kickoffs. The R team can take the ball at the site of first touching in that case.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by stpetesteve
Don't you also beanbag it on a free kick if there's first touching by the kicking team (in the first 10 yards)? That's what I've been told to do. That's why I hold the beanbag in my hand as a lines judges during kickoffs. The R team can take the ball at the site of first touching in that case.

Absolutely correct. All officials covering the neutral zone for a free kick should have bean bag in hand. If K touches the ball within the NZ, R can accept a first touching violation at that point.

On-sides kicks can involve all arms and legs and you as the official may not know exactly where the touching occurred because the adrenaline is pumping so fast. The beanbag lets you and everyone else know if it was in the NZ or out.

Case in point, covering an on-sides all the kickers converge on my side. I am running with the ball when K touches it. I am unsure exactly where between the 40 and 50 yard lines where it occurred. When I look back the bag is just on K's side of the 50.

[Bob M.]

Earlier Tom posted a response that mentioned the CCA Mechanics Manual. Here's an excerpt of the section Tom was referring to:

A. The bean bag will be dropped on the approximate yard line. (Herein after referred to as "spot".) TRY TO DROP THE BEAN BAG!
B. The bean bag will be dropped to mark the appropriate spot:
1. When a scrimmage kick ends inbounds. (This marks the Post Scrimmage Kick enforcement spot. Normally only one official will mark this spot with his bean bag.)
2. When the covering official actually sees a live ball fumbled anywhere on the field.
3. When a hand-off or backward pass occurs beyond the neutral zone or when there is no neutral zone.
4. When an eligible Team A pass receiver voluntarily goes out of bounds.
5. When an eligible receiver fails to return inbounds immediately after being blocked out of bounds.
6. When a Team A player goes out of bounds during a free or scrimmage kick down.
7. When a Team A player illegally touches a free or scrimmage kick.
8. When a Team B player intercepts a forward pass, fumble or backward pass between his five yard line and the goal line.
9. When a Team B player catches a free or scrimmage kick between his five yard line and the goal line.
10. When a Team B player recovers a fumble or kick between his five yard line and the goal line.
11. When necessary to mark forward progress when the runner/passer is driven back.
12. When the Team A player attempting to pass is tackled behind his line of scrimmage (QB "sack").