Kick or Defer?

[voiceoflg]

Kick or defer?

Dalton (Ga) vs. SE Whitfield, FED game. The player in white (Dalton) said he wanted to kick. The referee said "you are deferring then." The kid reiterated that they wanted to kick off and the white hat said "that means you are deferring."

Would you do that, or would you let them kick?

[TXMike]

If he is going to come out to the coin toss looking like a punk then I would let him step on his ying yang.

We know what the coach wants before we get out there and we never let the kid choose something different (although I would be temoted to do so if they sent someone out looking like this)

[Welpe]

I make it a point to ask the head coach in pregame what they want to do if they win the toss.

Failing that, I'd not argue with the player and have them defer anyways. If they want to kick the second half, they can elect to do so. I've seen the aftermath of a player electing to kick and the white hat going with it. Let's say the second half did not start off well.

[JRutledge]

General philosophy I have held for a long time is we do not tell them what they are going to do. We usually verify their request by making sure they understand what their choices are. If they insist on kicking the ball, there is only so much we can do. It is up to the coach to teach their kids what to do. But we will ask them a few times to make sure they understand the ramifications like say, "You want to kick and have your opponent choose in the second half right?" Often kids think that defer and kick mean the same thing.

Peace

[Rich]

My God, those kids have sportsmanship issues. And #38 obviously doesn't know which direction the bill of the hat is supposed to go. My nightmare is having this kid come home to pick up my daughter someday.

Too many choices given by the white hat. "You can receive, defer to the second half......(big pause here)." Matter of fact, this season I didn't have a single team not give me the choice immediately after saying, "You've won the toss." None of them said, "Kick."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Too many choices given by the white hat. "You can receive, defer to the second half......(big pause here)." Matter of fact, this season I didn't have a single team not give me the choice immediately after saying, "You've won the toss." None of them said, "Kick."

You are fortunate. We had a kid this year try to kick the ball as well until our Referee got him straight.

Peace

[Cobra]

Why are there two officials about 20 yards apart on the 50 yard line standing with their legs apart, hands behind the back, facing the white team's sideline? Is that normal for wherever this video is from?

[Rock Chalk]

it's almost like they are secret service protecting the coin toss.

Why on earth would a coach allow a player looking like that represent his team as the captain?

[SouthGARef]

Originally Posted by Cobra

Why are there two officials about 20 yards apart on the 50 yard line standing with their legs apart, hands behind the back, facing the white team's sideline? Is that normal for wherever this video is from?

Yes, that is the correct mechanic in Georgia. The LJ and HL walk out to the hashes, release the captains to midfield, turn and then face their sideline at parade rest.

__

As has otherwise been noted, there's quite a bit of a backstory here between these two teams. I'm sure the Referee had other things on his mind and didn't want to be bothered with the nuances of Kick v. Defer.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

Kick or defer?

Dalton (Ga) vs. SE Whitfield, FED game. The player in white (Dalton) said he wanted to kick. The referee said "you are deferring then." The kid reiterated that they wanted to kick off and the white hat said "that means you are deferring."

Would you do that, or would you let them kick?

I'm not even looking at the video, but taking your words as an accurate representation, I wouldn't even have questioned the first answer. "We want to kick" is a perfectly valid and direct answer to the choice presented.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I'm not even looking at the video, but taking your words as an accurate representation, I wouldn't even have questioned the first answer. "We want to kick" is a perfectly valid and direct answer to the choice presented.

Of course it is. And it's an election that we officials almost never permit a captain to make. So?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I'm not even looking at the video, but taking your words as an accurate representation, I wouldn't even have questioned the first answer. "We want to kick" is a perfectly valid and direct answer to the choice presented.

Yes, but they also do not know what that means sometimes. This is why many want to make sure they want to kick both halves.

Peace

[k_st8r]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, but they also do not know what that means sometimes. This is why many want to make sure they want to kick both halves.

Peace

As the Referee the few times the winner has chosen kick, My next sentence is: "so you want to kick both halves?" the next answer has always been no we will defer, or some reasonable facsimile.

Additionally, covered in the pre-game with the coach kicking wasn't the selection of the coach. in each case it was defer...

Interesting enough, I have been on crews where the white hat knew the coach wanted defer and let the kids kick twice anyway.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, but they also do not know what that means sometimes.

They know it means you'll honor their choice to kick. That's all you asked, that's all they're owed.

What do you do, draw them aside in a situation and say, "If you accept that penalty, it'll be your 2nd and 1 here, but if you decline it, it'll be your 1st and 10 a yard ahead. Some people don't realize it, but 2nd and 1 is what we call a `waste down', a down you'd probably do a lot better on than the 1 extra yard you'd gain by declining the penalty. I don't know if your coaches think that way, but if they do they'll think you're a moron for declining the penalty."?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

They know it means you'll honor their choice to kick. That's all you asked, that's all they're owed.

What do you do, draw them aside in a situation and say, "If you accept that penalty, it'll be your 2nd and 1 here, but if you decline it, it'll be your 1st and 10 a yard ahead. Some people don't realize it, but 2nd and 1 is what we call a `waste down', a down you'd probably do a lot better on than the 1 extra yard you'd gain by declining the penalty. I don't know if your coaches think that way, but if they do they'll think you're a moron for declining the penalty."?

I don't have any idea what sort of parallel you're trying to draw here... but you've obviously never made the mistake of allowing a kid to actually choose kick. You KNOW that's not what is wanted (and don't forget, we're not talking varsity here - at varsity, you've already asked the coaches in advance). Letting the kid make this mistake is bad form, and there is NOTHING good that can come from it. If you'd ever been there, you'd know that.