untimed down?

[yankeesfan]

on a kickoff, R blocks in the back on a return and the clock runs out in the first quarter. K accepts the penalty from the spot of foul. is there an untimed down?

[JRutledge]

Yes, the only time it would not be an untimed down is if there is an accepted penalty with a loss of down component. This is why you tell the captain/coach that "You might want to decline this penalty because......"

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

on a kickoff, R blocks in the back on a return and the clock runs out in the first quarter. K accepts the penalty from the spot of foul. is there an untimed down?

CANADIAN RULING:

Yes. (Except that the penalty is enforced from PBH.)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, the only time it would not be an untimed down is if there is an accepted penalty with a loss of down component. This is why you tell the captain/coach that "You might want to decline this penalty because......"

Peace

Well, they'd want to decline it if it was halftime. Matter of fact, there'd be little reason to speak to a captain other than to tell him it's halftime.

In this situation (end of 1st Q), we'd simply run an untimed down after enforcing the penalty.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

on a kickoff, R blocks in the back on a return and the clock runs out in the first quarter. K accepts the penalty from the spot of foul. is there an untimed down?

The question you want to ask in order to know whether you have an untimed down is: was there an accepted penalty for a foul occurring during the last timed down?

So there are numerous ways you would not have an untimed down, including:

• penalty declined
• penalty includes loss of down
• foul did not occur during the down (before the snap or after ball became dead)

Don't get caught up on whether it was A/K or B/R: that's irrelevant in NFHS.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Well, they'd want to decline it if it was halftime. Matter of fact, there'd be little reason to speak to a captain other than to tell him it's halftime.

Unless, perhaps, R scored.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, the only time it would not be an untimed down is if there is an accepted penalty with a loss of down component. This is why you tell the captain/coach that "You might want to decline this penalty because......"Peace

Another forum brought up a situation, I've blown past for a lot of years because I guess I just didn't envision it, but NF: 3-3-4-b5, "(a period will NOT be extended)...b5: fouls by which enforcement result is a safety."

Consider, B is behind by 3 points, A's ball 4th & 15 on A's 5 yl, 3 seconds left following a 3rd down incomplete pass. A, in 4th down scrimmage kick formation, A3, blocking on rushers, clearly holds, while clearly standing in the EZ. Time expires as the kicker is brought down before getting the kick off.

For 1st and 3rd periods, the period ends, sides are switched and the Free Kick after a safety is the 1st play of the 2nd or 4th periods. If this happens at the end of the 2nd or 4th period, the half, or the game, is over and B would not get the opportunity to receive a free kick as they are NOT entitled to an untimed down.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Another forum brought up a situation, I've blown past for a lot of years because I guess I just didn't envision it, but NF: 3-3-4-b5, "(a period will NOT be extended)...b5: fouls by which enforcement result is a safety."

Consider, B is behind by 3 points, A's ball 4th & 15 on A's 5 yl, 3 seconds left following a 3rd down incomplete pass. A, in 4th down scrimmage kick formation, A3, blocking on rushers, clearly holds, while clearly standing in the EZ. Time expires as the kicker is brought down before getting the kick off.

For 1st and 3rd periods, the period ends, sides are switched and the Free Kick after a safety is the 1st play of the 2nd or 4th periods. If this happens at the end of the 2nd or 4th period, the half, or the game, is over and B would not get the opportunity to receive a free kick as they are NOT entitled to an untimed down.

Absolutely... can't imagine why one would want the reverse.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Unless, perhaps, R scored.

I still wouldn't have to talk to a captain.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Well, they'd want to decline it if it was halftime. Matter of fact, there'd be little reason to speak to a captain other than to tell him it's halftime.

In this situation (end of 1st Q), we'd simply run an untimed down after enforcing the penalty.

I would still talk to the captain as I would not want to be accused of not informing them of their options. They might not realize the quarter/half/game can extend with an accepted penalty. I think we take the "give them the obvious choice" too far sometimes. You do not have to take 10 minutes to make this decision, just yell to the player, "If you take this we have to run an untimed down." At least they would know and they cannot say you choose not to tell them or did not give them the option.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would still talk to the captain as I would not want to be accused of not informing them of their options. They might not realize the quarter/half/game can extend with an accepted penalty. I think we take the "give them the obvious choice" too far sometimes. You do not have to take 10 minutes to make this decision, just yell to the player, "If you take this we have to run an untimed down." At least they would know and they cannot say you choose not to tell them or did not give them the option.

Peace

I think that if the choice is obvious, I'm not messing around with the captains. Do what you want to do.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I think that if the choice is obvious, I'm not messing around with the captains. Do what you want to do.

I was not trying to convince you either way. Just stating what I would do that is all.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Absolutely... can't imagine why one would want the reverse.

Ask the NFL rules committee. They specifically allow the team that accepts a penalty resulting in a safety to demand the free kick.