Proper spot and down?

[cubes32]

Offense has the ball, 3rd and goal on the 4 yard line. Shotgun snap goes over QB's head. Halfback fall on the ball at the 14 yard line. Head Linesman blows the play dead, assuming HB has recovered the ball. The ball squirts loose and the defense recovers. After the officials meet, they confirm the whistle had blown the play dead at the 14. A coach from the defensive team runs out on the field, berates the officials, and receives an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. The ball is placed at approximately the 3 yard line and third down is repeated.

Is that the correct placement of the ball and should it still be third down?

[JRutledge]

You have an Inadvertent Whistle, which means the offended team (the team with the ball) has the option of taking the place where the ball was ruled dead or they can replay the down. Anytime you have a penalty, the penalty must be administered if accepted. It sounds like the team with the ball choose the option to replay the down and since the USC penalty was administered as well; the ball would be placed after the penalty half the distance to the goal and repeat the down. It sounds like they got it right considering they had an IW.

Peace

[mbyron]

Agreed: the IW explains why the down was repeated; 2 USC fouls explain the spot.

[tomes1978]

Well it depends on if there was an IW or not. It sounds like you guys decided the player was down? If you decided the player was down and there was no IW then you would have fourth down from the 7 (half distance to GL). If there was an IW then you would replay the down and half the distance for the enforcment of the UC would be the two.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by tomes1978

Well it depends on if there was an IW or not. It sounds like you guys decided the player was down? If you decided the player was down and there was no IW then you would have fourth down from the 7 (half distance to GL). If there was an IW then you would replay the down and half the distance for the enforcment of the UC would be the two.

Read the OP again: the poster knows what happened (down repeated, strange spot), he just doesn't know why.

[tomes1978]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Read the OP again: the poster knows what happened (down repeated, strange spot), he just doesn't know why.

Well his question was ,"Is that the correct placement of the ball and should it still be third down?"

You stated yes that two USC fouls explains the spot? Explain your answer to me.

Ball should have been placed at the two repeat third down.

[CT1]

The choices on this play are:

(1) Player ruled down at 14. Count the down, penalize B half the distance. 4th and goal on the B-7.

(2) Inadvertent whistle. Down must be replayed, penalize B half the distance from the previous spot. 3rd and goal from the B-2.

[cubes32]

thank you for the replies. I am actually a coach (for the offensive team) looking for clarification. We were not given any options. The referee said we would replay the down and that he would mark off the distance for the UC penalty.

The head coach of the defensive team is throwing a fit about the play. We threw an interception on the next play anyways, so I think they caught a break as well.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by cubes32

thank you for the replies. I am actually a coach (for the offensive team) looking for clarification. We were not given any options. The referee said we would replay the down and that he would mark off the distance for the UC penalty.

Well that is what your captains are for, they probably agreed to that option. So maybe you were never personally informed, but I do not see much of a conversation needed to go to you when the choice is more obvious. I doubt you would want the ball 5 or 6 yards away from the EZ and it did not have to be much of a conversation with the captain.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by CT1

The choices on this play are:

(1) Player ruled down at 14. Count the down, penalize B half the distance. 4th and goal on the B-7.

(2) Inadvertent whistle. Down must be replayed, penalize B half the distance from the previous spot. 3rd and goal from the B-2.

Ah, I see your point (and tomes's). Of course if we replay the down, it won't be from the B14, and the basic spot for USC is the succeeding spot (in this case, the B4). Yep, there's probably a goof in this enforcement: sounds as if the crew regarded the B14 as the succeeding spot, enforced 2 USC fouls, then applied the IW provisions to replay the down.

[Robert Goodman]

Hard for me to imagine how a player could "fall on the ball" and yet the whistle be inadvertent. Either the description is faulty, or there was some strange judgment that the player lying on the ball, even if it subsequently "squirted out", was not in possession of it. Did one of the other officials have a better angle that enabled him to see the ball was merely deflected off the side of the player rather than trapped between the player's body and the ground?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Hard for me to imagine how a player could "fall on the ball" and yet the whistle be inadvertent. Either the description is faulty, or there was some strange judgment that the player lying on the ball, even if it subsequently "squirted out", was not in possession of it. Did one of the other officials have a better angle that enabled him to see the ball was merely deflected off the side of the player rather than trapped between the player's body and the ground?

Happens all the time: official sees player jump on the ball but does not see possession (typically the player's back is to the official). Official blows whistle while the ball is still loose, and an opponent recovers. Classic IW.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Hard for me to imagine how a player could "fall on the ball" and yet the whistle be inadvertent. Either the description is faulty, or there was some strange judgment that the player lying on the ball, even if it subsequently "squirted out", was not in possession of it. Did one of the other officials have a better angle that enabled him to see the ball was merely deflected off the side of the player rather than trapped between the player's body and the ground?

This is why when coaches talk about "You must blow the whistle" why we should not blow the whistle when we "think" the player is down. The ball may not be actually in possession. It happen in our state final game a few years back and our crew member ruled a player down. Well the video showed he was not in possession of the ball, but that is what he ruled at the time so we went with that (and we do not have IR).

Peace

[Rich]

I ignore coaches that ask for quicker whistles. I know what happens when we try to speed up the whistles.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Hard for me to imagine how a player could "fall on the ball" and yet the whistle be inadvertent. Either the description is faulty, or there was some strange judgment that the player lying on the ball, even if it subsequently "squirted out", was not in possession of it. Did one of the other officials have a better angle that enabled him to see the ball was merely deflected off the side of the player rather than trapped between the player's body and the ground?

You're kidding, right? I'd say that MOST of the IW's I've seen were blown by an official who thought they saw the play end, when everyone else saw the ball loose.