Some are thrown to gain yardage. :p

But not the way the game was played that I officiated last night! :eek:

It's a judgement call. Judgement is something that all of us use every week. It's something which is refined and hammered and polished week in, and week out by those of us who work hard to do so.

It's also something you obviously lack.

John, I know you're smarter than this.

For there to be Intentional Grounding, the ball has to hit the ground -- IOW, incomplete.

the rule says, " held" so that his forward progress is stopped.

I know it is a judgement call but don't you think he was stopped? Would you defend that call?


There are other illegal forward passes besides GROUNDING!

and since the ball was dead.

USC on A's QB

ART. 2 . . . When the ball becomes dead in possession of a player, he shall not:
a. Intentionally kick the ball.
b. Spike the ball into the ground.
c. Throw the ball high into the air or from the field of play or end zone.
d. Intentionally fail to place the ball on the ground or immediately return it to
a nearby official.

R throws a flag for IG, and then his second flag for USC.

So not only are we taking away a touchdown, we are going to enforce a loss of down, and then 15 more yards on top of that, giving: 4D/31 @ B-35. :D :eek:

no IG, he was down.

If he was down, how can you have an IFP? The play was over.

I disagree. Neither of his knees touched the ground before he threw the ball.

I also wouldn't rule that forward progress was stopped. Mike Carey properly let Eli Manning play through an in-the grasp situation that is now called among the best non-calls in Super Bowl history.

I must say...this is trolling at the next level. Can't really believe this is being entertained.

I appreciate the kudos! APG. It is fun to think outside the box sometimes though don't you think?

I do think you could make a case for ball being dead before the pass, though. :)

A very poor case which would only be substantiated with a very, very quick whistle.

Some of work games in the real world.

BJ is more than capable of being an idiot completely on his own... you don't have to help. In this case, you're simply wrong - so great job supporting his case. Congrats.

(Can't find where you're wrong and your sitch does not fit the rule? Look for the word "held" in that rule if you can't.)

Here's the deal... The wording of the rule is wrong. BJ has pointed that out (about 12 times). He is right that the wording of this rule, to be completely correct, needs the word "incomplete" in the table section of the rule.

There. I've just agreed with BJ.

I think I just threw up a little.

That is not correct. It is a foul to intentionally throw a forward pass into an area not occupied by an eligible offensive receiver. It does not matter if the ball hits the ground.

4th down, A12 intentionally throws to an area not occupied by an eligible receiver. B20 catches the pass, runs and fumbles the ball. A recovers.

A12 fouled when he threw the pass. B will accept the penalty, down will not be repeated. B will take the ball.