what do you have???

MD Longhorn · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 14, 2011, 02:13pm

Completely different - I think even you would agree... but to keep with your point ... if I can SEE that they have stepped out, they are out. And at least in that case you likely have the very best possible angle - and are likely looking right at it, as the player going down the sideline and whether he goes out or not is your primary focus, with everything else being watched peripherally.

If you're trying to imply, by this, that you can actually see whether that ball that looks like a completely legal snap to the other 5000 people in the stands did or did not rise a millimeter off the ground, then I would have 2 things for you. 1) Why are you looking RIGHT THERE - you've moved your focus from the other 10 things you're supposed to be watching at that moment... and 2) Please stand up and get your head off the ground, as that is the ONLY angle from which you could possibly be positive of your call.

All that said, however... that's not really my point. My point, really, is that I don't believe the rulesmakers EVER intended the officials to be differentiating between a snap that rolls and never leaves the ground and one that rises ever so minutely. There are several things that make a snap illegal. I truly don't believe that anyone EVER intended officials to cobble together the rules you've cobbled together to rule that a snap that for whatever reason (intent or just bad snap) does not actually leave the ground on it's way back to it's recipient is illegal ... while on that ever so infinitessimally does leave the ground is legal. (Nevermind that I don't buy the cobbling itself, don't believe that an official CAN (even if not doing his job correctly) make this determination, and don't believe that you SHOULD (while doing your job correctly) be looking at this nit to the expense of all the other far more important things you should be looking at.)

cmathews · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 14, 2011, 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Completely different - I think even you would agree... but to keep with your point ... if I can SEE that they have stepped out, they are out. And at least in that case you likely have the very best possible angle - and are likely looking right at it, as the player going down the sideline and whether he goes out or not is your primary focus, with everything else being watched peripherally.

If you're trying to imply, by this, that you can actually see whether that ball that looks like a completely legal snap to the other 5000 people in the stands did or did not rise a millimeter off the ground, then I would have 2 things for you. 1) Why are you looking RIGHT THERE - you've moved your focus from the other 10 things you're supposed to be watching at that moment... and 2) Please stand up and get your head off the ground, as that is the ONLY angle from which you could possibly be positive of your call.

All that said, however... that's not really my point. My point, really, is that I don't believe the rulesmakers EVER intended the officials to be differentiating between a snap that rolls and never leaves the ground and one that rises ever so minutely. There are several things that make a snap illegal. I truly don't believe that anyone EVER intended officials to cobble together the rules you've cobbled together to rule that a snap that for whatever reason (intent or just bad snap) does not actually leave the ground on it's way back to it's recipient is illegal ... while on that ever so infinitessimally does leave the ground is legal. (Nevermind that I don't buy the cobbling itself, don't believe that an official CAN (even if not doing his job correctly) make this determination, and don't believe that you SHOULD (while doing your job correctly) be looking at this nit to the expense of all the other far more important things you should be looking at.)

I don't know what position you work, but evidently it isn't umpire. The umpire is supposed to make sure we have a legal snap, so, it would be his job to make sure that it met the requirements.
As to cobbling rules together, I really don't think that is the case. Define a snap and you get to pass, define pass and you get the ball traveling in flight. As to picking nits that it need to be a millimeter off of the ground, I disagree completely. It needs to be visibly "passed" in a shotgun type formation. The nit picker would try to make the millimeter of flight legal, in my mind if it isn't clearly "passed" or handed then it is illegal.

bigjohn · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 14, 2011, 02:24pm

Well in that same vein, what the hell does it matter if he rolls it back or passes it back, Really both get the ball to the back and no advantage is gained, is it?

Robert Goodman · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 15, 2011, 01:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Well in that same vein, what the hell does it matter if he rolls it back or passes it back, Really both get the ball to the back and no advantage is gained, is it?

What's the difference what the score is? The game's going to end anyway.

MD Longhorn · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 14, 2011, 03:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmathews

I don't know what position you work, but evidently it isn't umpire. The umpire is supposed to make sure we have a legal snap, so, it would be his job to make sure that it met the requirements.
As to cobbling rules together, I really don't think that is the case. Define a snap and you get to pass, define pass and you get the ball traveling in flight. As to picking nits that it need to be a millimeter off of the ground, I disagree completely. It needs to be visibly "passed" in a shotgun type formation. The nit picker would try to make the millimeter of flight legal, in my mind if it isn't clearly "passed" or handed then it is illegal.

At best you get to a pass travels in flight. But again, it says that it does, not that it must. The umpire is charged with making sure we have a legal snap. However, in the case described here there is ZERO chance of him seeing the ball at the moment it leaves the center's hand (again ... unless he's laying on the ground). If you can see this from there (or from anyone else's position), you're doing something wrong. THIS is not what the U is supposed to be looking at when determining a legal snap. I guarantee that no one in any clinic I've ever been to has said, "You umpires out there make sure that snap leaves the ground!!!" Never. Not once. To be completely honest - you are the only person I've EVER heard that wants to pick this particular nit.