what do you have???

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by cmathews

The fact that it must leave his hand/s before touching the ground is where we hung our hat. It did NOT leave his hand/s prior to touching the ground.

ball immediately leaves the hand(s) of the snapper and touches a back or the ground

And. Not prior to. Just AND.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

And. Not prior to. Just AND.

Article 1 says it is an act of passing or handing.....he certainly doesn't hand it...so did he pass it? passing requires flight, it didn't ever leave the ground so it wasn't a pass. If it isn't passing or handing it isn't a legal snap.

[bigjohn]

I agree if the snapper just spins the ball and rolls it, it is illegal snap, but he lofts it just a bit and rotates his wrist to make the ball land and roll it is legal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I agree if the snapper just spins the ball and rolls it, it is illegal snap, but he lofts it just a bit and rotates his wrist to make the ball land and roll it is legal.

Seems to me we're picking nits that were not intended by the rulesmakers (not that I was in the room!). What would be the purpose of insisting that the ball leave the ground infinitessimally during a snap? Sounds like we're just creatively trying to force an admittedly undefined section of the rule to fit the answer you want, rather than deriving the answer from the rules themselves.

[bigjohn]

The rules say the snap can hit the ground, balls roll when they hit the ground, who is picking nits here?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

The rules say the snap can hit the ground, balls roll when they hit the ground, who is picking nits here?

Against my better judgement ... what exactly are you disagreeing with me about, and how am I picking a nit at all... I'm saying let it go. The fact that the OP would be ruled illegal by some, but legal if the ball moved even a millimeter off the ground ... there's your nit.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Against my better judgement ... what exactly are you disagreeing with me about, and how am I picking a nit at all... I'm saying let it go. The fact that the OP would be ruled illegal by some, but legal if the ball moved even a millimeter off the ground ... there's your nit.

soooo how far oob does a player have to be to be out of bounds...is a couple millimeters the same as being in?? or is a couple millimeters considered out?? : )

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Against my better judgement ... what exactly are you disagreeing with me about, and how am I picking a nit at all... I'm saying let it go. The fact that the OP would be ruled illegal by some, but legal if the ball moved even a millimeter off the ground ... there's your nit.

But the same could be said about a snap that moves a mm backward, as opposed to one that doesn't. There was never specified a minimum distance backward the ball has to be snapped, so the determination must be made between something and nothing.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I agree if the snapper just spins the ball and rolls it, it is illegal snap, but he lofts it just a bit and rotates his wrist to make the ball land and roll it is legal.

The question in the OP concerned whether rolling the ball during the snap is legal. The answer, by rule, is no, because rolling the ball is neither handing nor passing.

If you're looking for a way around that, fine, but it doesn't change the answer. As an official, I'll be looking to see whether the snapper hands or passes the ball backward and otherwise complies with the snap requirements. As an official, I will use my judgment and decide whether to flag a snap as illegal.

Sometimes, you just gotta officiate.