Free Kick Lines

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by NFHS, rule 6-1-1, empahsis mine

ART. 1 . . . For any free kick, a free-kick line, corresponding to a scrimmage line, is established for each team. These lines are always 10 yards apart. Unless moved by a penalty, K's free-kick line is:

a. Its 40-yard line for a kickoff.

What happens if the K's free kick line is inside R's 10-yard line? Not that this is likely to happen, but let's say that there were 4 separate UC fouls on R after a scoring play. By my reckoning that would place K's free-kick line on R's 7.5 yard line.

I don't think we can make R's free kick line 2.5 yards into the end zone, nor do I think we have rules support to make R's free kick line the goal line (thereby making the free kick lines 7.5 yards apart).

[JRutledge]

I think there was a casebook play on this at one time. I will see if I can find it and get back to you, but I believe you still had to give them the 10 yards.

Peace

[KS_Blue]

This has been a thing that our area supervisor has always stressed, even though I don't think he has even seen it. In a case where K's free kick line is from the 7.5 yard line, R's line would be the goal line. R's free kick line can never be deeper than the goal line. Not sure on the reference, but that is what has always been taught around here.

[parepat]

Wow. This would be a great coaching move for a team that was up and expecting and onside kick. K could never recover an onside kick. Simply move your kids out of the way. When the ball crosses the EZ you have a touchback.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by parepat

Wow. This would be a great coaching move for a team that was up and expecting and onside kick. K could never recover an onside kick. Simply move your kids out of the way. When the ball crosses the EZ you have a touchback.

Two things:
1) I don't think I could ever consider intentionally getting called for multiple UC fouls a "great coaching move".
2) R can always decline the distance penalty for any foul. (See 10-1-1) So in this situation R could choose to have the kick take place any of these locations: K40, R45, R30, R15, or R7.5. Only R7.5 would make it impossible to recover an onside kick.

[Jim S]

We had this last year. Coaches on a team that was scored on went ballistic. Charging the field, language, etc. By the end of the choices the scoring team kicked off from the 3 3/4 yard line. (They declined the last penalty that would have made it the 1 3/8!)
We had the "receiving" team lined up back 6+ yards deep in the EZ. Used the side guys as the restraining line. We also told the R players, who were worried about an 'on-side' kick that they needn't worry since the ball couldn't go the necessary ten yards. They relaxed and didn't even leave their "line"
when the ball was kicked.
The kicking team knew what to do also. The kicker approached the ball and tapped it with his foot. It fell off the tee and laid there and we blew the whistle for a loose ball that no one was attempting to recover.
Of course the coaches (what were left of them) on the receiving team wanted a penalty on K becuase "The kick HAS to go 10 yards or it's not legal!"

Right coach.......

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

What happens if the K's free kick line is inside R's 10-yard line? Not that this is likely to happen, but let's say that there were 4 separate UC fouls on R after a scoring play. By my reckoning that would place K's free-kick line on R's 7.5 yard line.

I don't think we can make R's free kick line 2.5 yards into the end zone,

Why not? That's the way I've always understood it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jim S

The kicking team knew what to do also. The kicker approached the ball and tapped it with his foot. It fell off the tee and laid there and we blew the whistle for a loose ball that no one was attempting to recover.
Of course the coaches (what were left of them) on the receiving team wanted a penalty on K becuase "The kick HAS to go 10 yards or it's not legal!"

This is a difference between pro & amateur rules. NFL still has a "short free kick" provision that applies no matter how the ball becomes dead. IIRC, so does Canadian football, both pro & am. In Rugby Union, the other team is even allowed to play the ball within 10m and if they get no advantage, the kicking team is penalized if the referee judges that the kick would not have reached the 10m line anyway, i.e. that the other team's action did not prevent it from doing so.

Used the side guys as the restraining line.

Why not use the first down chain? Or was that in addition?

[parepat]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Two things:
1) I don't think I could ever consider intentionally getting called for multiple UC fouls a "great coaching move".
2) R can always decline the distance penalty for any foul. (See 10-1-1) So in this situation R could choose to have the kick take place any of these locations: K40, R45, R30, R15, or R7.5. Only R7.5 would make it impossible to recover an onside kick.

Darn! Outwitted again.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

What happens if the K's free kick line is inside R's 10-yard line? Not that this is likely to happen, but let's say that there were 4 separate UC fouls on R after a scoring play. By my reckoning that would place K's free-kick line on R's 7.5 yard line.

I don't think we can make R's free kick line 2.5 yards into the end zone, nor do I think we have rules support to make R's free kick line the goal line (thereby making the free kick lines 7.5 yards apart).

How about if there was a scrimmage kick from K's one. K punts a very short punt and R fair catches it at the 7½. Then R, now the new K, could elect a free kick also. And since the free kick lines are always 10 yards apart, then yes, the new R's line would be 2½ yards into the endzone.

[JasonTX]

NCAA keeps it simple.

Distance penalties by either team may not extend a team's free kick restraining line behind its five yard line. Penalties that would otherwise place the free kick restraining line behind a team's five yard line are enforced from the next succeeding spot.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

NCAA keeps it simple.

Distance penalties by either team may not extend a team's free kick restraining line behind its five yard line. Penalties that would otherwise place the free kick restraining line behind a team's five yard line are enforced from the next succeeding spot.

When did they make that change?

I don't see why that's simple. It just adds a complication. It may be good for other reasons, but not simplicity.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

When did they make that change?

I don't see why that's simple. It just adds a complication. It may be good for other reasons, but not simplicity.

Well, the rules state the ball must travel 10 yards (or touched by team B) before team A can gain legal possession. Kind of hard to do if there isn't 10 yards between the two teams. Capping it off at the 5 ensures there will always be a 10 yard "zone" between both teams.

As for when the change was made. It's been like that for all the 11 years I've been using NCAA rules.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Well, the rules state the ball must travel 10 yards (or touched by team B) before team A can gain legal possession. Kind of hard to do if there isn't 10 yards between the two teams. Capping it off at the 5 ensures there will always be a 10 yard "zone" between both teams.

Uh, ever heard of end zones? They've been in use since, IIRC, 1912. So there's no need to have that NCAA rule to assure a 10 yard neutral zone, as illustrated by the Fed cases given above. The rules don't have to allow for possession by A regardless of the spot, do they?

As for when the change was made. It's been like that for all the 11 years I've been using NCAA rules.

So no later than 2000, then. But some time after 1983.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Uh, ever heard of end zones?

The snark is unecessary. Jason has a very valid point as it is a lot easier to delinate restraining lines when you have actual lines to work with. That and NCAA isn't as simple as Fed when it comes to kick offs and touchbacks.