Ki-o-Rahi (Maori football) - Page 4

Taha Maori · #46 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 12, 2003, 01:39am

No the inference was not on racism, just denigration of sports that some people write off as insignificant (such as ki-o-rahi), when if they knew the history of that so-called 'insignificant' sport they may see that without it having existed 'their' sport (such as A-ball) may never have evolved! Some people actually rubbish sports they no nothing about because they feel 'their' sport is the only one that matters in the world, and if that sport is only played in their country they may also feel like their country is the only one that matters in the world.

Early major American sports (mainly pre-WW2) were segregated, which was a reflection of the society at the time. Where there was less segregation was actually in the minority sports and boxing.

I agree market forces dictate, however that still shouldn't stop children in schools learning about other places in the world and their sports too. This can give the child an all-round picture of the world that is not distorted by prejudices or one-eyedness and gives them options about the sport they want to play not the one their parents are trying to co-erce them to play. In effect sometimes marketing "forces" the ones with money in the household (the parents) to dictate to their kids where and what sport to play.

For instance if your child was passionate about Ki-o-Rahi and wanted to play it over American football what would your initial reaction be? What resistances spring to mind for you?

ABoselli · #47 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 12, 2003, 07:38am

For instance if your child was passionate about Ki-o-Rahi and wanted to play it over American football what would your initial reaction be?

That they would be very lonely.

JMN · #48 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 12, 2003, 10:56am

Taha,

Boy, you sure have passion for your topic, I'll give you that. And... a lot of time on your hands to promote Hi-Ho-Raunchi.

Regarding kids, all I need is one more activity for my kid to participate in. Driving them from place to place is a full time job for moms in our culture. Do you guys have mini-vans where you're from? Do you have "Ki-Ho-Rahi Mom's" and are they pandered to at election time? Do you have elections?

You actually sound very interested in the study of sports and culture. With the apparent time you have on your hands, I would suggest one of two potential uses for that time. Either write a thesis and pursue a doctorate on this topic or get a beer and some chips and watch a little more TV!

(p.s. If you didn't catch it, you may want to do a study on cynicism regarding one-off, obscure sports and those in foreign lands that promote it via the Internet)

Mike Simonds · #49 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 12, 2003, 02:53pm

I've enjoyed reading the postings regarding sports in New Zealand, etc.

Here in Hawai'i we are more fortunate than most of our brothers and sisters who reside in the 48 continental states because we truly live in a multi-cultural society in the islands.

I have a wahine friend who dances for a local hula halau and they study Maori dance. Also, a childhood friend and little league baseball team-mate sailed on the famous voyaging canoe Hokule'a as it traveled between Hawai'i and Tahiti and other islands recreating the great voyages of migration in Polynesia that predate Columbus by over 500 years. One of the high schools we officiate is located on the slopes of Haleakala, where the great mythical hero Maui roped the sun and made it slow down on its journey across our skies. I believe Maui is also known among your people as well...

I did look up the Maori battalions that fought during WWI and WWII and they did rack-up a very impressive record for their small numbers. You have every right to be proud of what your people have accomplished in peacetime and during war.

However, the other blokes on this site do have a good point: this is a discussion board for American football. Therefore, I would be happy to exchange email addresses with you so we may continue this discussion at another location.

Mahalo nui loa for sharing your mana'o with us!

Taha Maori · #50 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 13, 2003, 06:52am

See how marketing affects the rhetoric! The marketers have you consumers just where they want you. It seems like A-ball is a religion to alot of you, healthy?

My point here is that you can not confine sports to the paddock they are played on, nothing social exists in isolation?

So by talking A-ball you must be by inference talking about the society it thrives in and to understand it fully you need to explore the mechanisms for its existence.Therefore to understand a game you need to understand the people who support it and work out why they adhere to it.

So this is the question, why A-ball, why not ping pong or any other sport, answers? (please no marketing rehash!).

You'll also notice all the war mongering was started by other posters who sidetracked giving thinking answers, I simply played along until they got back on track with the sports discussion.

ROAMER · #51 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 13, 2003, 07:48am

Would never happen .. different concepts .. different games ..

Kia ora Taha ..

You seem to have a bee in the bonnet .. btw ( I am a Kiwi too, that happened upon this site ..).

I must say Taha, that you are politicing the sports forum .. what was the old adage "sport and politics do not mix"

I am interested in the ki-o-rahi though .. since in the south (south Island) we don't see much of it .. predominantly played in the north of the north no? and not very well known even in NZ.

Now if you guys want to find out a bit more about Rugby Union .. try KiwiRugby.net ( http://www.kiwirugby.net you too Taha).

This weekend England v New Zealand .. biggest game for years .. as a matter of fact since England last beat us in 1905 at the Crystal palace

ABoselli · #52 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 13, 2003, 08:47am

It seems like A-ball is a religion to alot of you, healthy?

Umm, you're not too fixated on Ki-o-Rahi, though, right?

Even your fellow Kiwi doesn't know much about it.

Are free market conditions the reason that soccer is the sport of obsession in most European, African, South American and Asian countries? Is it the reason that kids fill a sack with feathers or paper and kick it around in the poorest of poor neighborhoods in these countries? Is it the reason they riot on soccer stadiums around the world during matches between bitter rivals? Is it the reason fans (hooligans) fill balloons with blood and urine to lob at opposing players and fans? I propose that soccer is a part of their culture, hence their devotion to the sport. It's not a part of ours. We have American football, baseball, basketball and hockey. Football is the most popular, mostly because it is a sport that lends itself well to television, and continues to be the most popular sport in terms of high school participation. It enjoys a tradition here, much like baseball used to about 30 years ago.

Taha Maori · #53 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 13, 2004, 08:09pm

Kia ora Mike,

well I was on the subject of A-ball....my question was why is the Superbowl billed as the world championship when really only one (1) country plays the sport? The numbers per head of population who play in the US are minute also. By way of comparison I am saying that the advertisers have gone loco with the claim of a World Championship because we in NZ could say we were holding ther Ki-o-Rahi World Championship but the public here are not as stupid and would see through the hype.Don't American fans feel such an assertion, that they are having a world series!, is hollow and meaningless? Are the fans that easy to deceive and is that a national trait? are Americans outside of the sports arena also so gullible?

ABoselli · #54 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 15, 2004, 09:49am

yes we are.

By the way, was this on your mind for 9 months?

Watched Whale Rider a few weeks ago.

Dommer1 · #55 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 19, 2004, 10:12am

Well, I managed to stay out of this for a pretty long time, but this caught my eye:

"my question was why is the Superbowl billed as the world championship when really only one (1) country plays the sport?"

Mr. Kiwi,

I'm not american and I don't even live in the US, just to get that straight.

American football is played in AT LEAST 25 countries, even in good 'ole NZ. I've even listed the ones I have positive knowledge of here for you:

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Mexico
Moldava
The Netherlands
New Zeeland
Norway
Russia
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom
United States

All these are countries where organized leagues exists. In addition, I've heard Greece is trying to get a federation started.

As you can see, football is being played in a lot of countries. It is by no means just an American thing. There are proper international competitions and championships, especially in Europe. World championships are being started, and two have actually been held on a smaller scale. Due to the way the sport is organized in the US, it has been difficult to get them to join, but progress is being made. There is now a proper (in the eyes of international sport) federation (USA Football) that enables this.

And then you have this business of "World Champions". Well, although football is a sport played the world over, there is no doubt that the best players are in the NFL. So although incorrect, I can live with them being called world champions.

Just FYI...

AndrewMcCarthy · #56 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 19, 2004, 02:27pm

Plus don't forget- Canadian football is very similar and played in at least one additional country... Canada.

Dommer1 · #57 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 22, 2004, 04:37am

Yeah, Canada should have been on there as well, especially as they play both versions there, I believe.

Taha Maori · #58 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 25, 2004, 12:59am

Hey Dommer1 thats a great list, so can you tell me which "international" teams feature in the "World Championship", aka the Super Bowl? - just one other country will do thanks.

ABoselli · #59 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 26, 2004, 04:25pm

I think its safe to say that it is generally recognized that the highest level of (American) football in the world is played in the NFL, hence, the NFL champion is the world champion. The same can be said of basketball.

It may be closer than years past, but the same could be said of baseball and hockey as well. The best players in the world come to play in each of those leagues.

Taha Maori · #60 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 27, 2004, 10:13am

Being 'generally recognized' by whom? Does that mean that the best A-football team in the 'rest of the world' would not be competitive with the worst in the NFL?

I note in the last basketball world championship the US was well beaten.So the American public may get duped by the promoters and advertisers into believing they have the best players in the strongest comp in the world (in A-football, b-ball, hockey, baseball...) so that the spectators feel like they're privileged and getting value for their money. All that hype from the promoters could be seen as propoganda so that the consumers (public) help support the professional league and everyone involved (as in lifestyles).

Across the Tasman, in Australia, the rugby league promoters there always say the same thing - "we have the strongest club comp in the world"... "the best players" etc yet the best Pom
(British)teams have no trouble in beating the best Aussie teams even though they come from a supposedly weaker comp.

So why isn't A-football opened up and a genuine world championship held? Why don't the market forces allow this? I just can't see how you can legitimately promote a world championship if only one country is participating.

[Edited by Taha Maori on Mar 27th, 2004 at 09:22 AM]