Ki-o-Rahi (Maori football)

[National Party]

A very quick comment from N.Z. There is nothing the matter with American footy as far as I can gather. I play quitwe a bit of golf and meet many people from far a field including the states. With our discusions it seems lke we can get out of touch with events as momentious as the iraq war because of our distance from it in real terms and political terms. The States are transforming the world in sports and in everyday thingswe do it is impossible not tobe affected American footy will become big in our country eventually.We will have a new prime minister next election who will put an end to all this pointless upheavel that liberals and maoris are the cause of. ouyr coyuntry is unsettled and going back wards quickly with the mari culture being so in our faces.The maori games are inferior to our main games like golf rugby and soccer and need to be forgotten so we can move into the future as one people. Yes God bless America and our country and the quicker your footy gets going here the quicker we can be rid of the menial maori games which are becoming too popular and are tainting our youth.

[Mike Simonds]

Amen, Mr. Kiwi!

[ABoselli]

Now there's a kick in the teeth, huh Taha?

[National Party]

hurray at last!
theres chaos galore here in our country because legaslation is getting past to prevent those moaris from getting the seashore. Dr Brash has said they will allow nuclaer powerd shipsback in our waters. Tens of thousands of moari are protesting and im stoked! Our golf corses will be safe from been given back to moari and there pathetic games will cease to pollute our sportsmad countrymen. We need your footy here quickly it isd much better than the moari footy! Help! jump in while the goings good! Please USA start supporting a major league in our country! three cheers!

[James Neil]

Originally posted by National Party
hurray at last!
theres chaos galore here in our country because legaslation is getting past to prevent those moaris from getting the seashore. Dr Brash has said they will allow nuclaer powerd shipsback in our waters. Tens of thousands of moari are protesting and im stoked! Our golf corses will be safe from been given back to moari and there pathetic games will cease to pollute our sportsmad countrymen. We need your footy here quickly it isd much better than the moari footy! Help! jump in while the goings good! Please USA start supporting a major league in our country! three cheers!

LOL... FOOTY ...LOL

For a minute there I thought I was at McGriff's

[Taha Maori]

I have two questions that is relevant to our discussions - 1) how many refs are required in an American Football game? 2) how many rules are there regarding breeches of the rules and/or covering codes of misconduct?

[ABoselli]

High school - 4,5 or 6 officials.
College - 6
NFL - 7

NFHS - 10 rules
College - 11 Rules
NFL - 18 Rules

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Rules regarding breaches of the rules??

That's under "penalty enforcement".

[Theisey]

Originally posted by ABoselli
High school - 4,5 or 6 officials.
College - 6
NFL - 7

NFHS - 10 rules
College - 11 Rules
NFL - 18 Rules

Minor update... NCAA will use 5, 6 or 7 officials on the field depending on the division level and conference at that level. They do occasionally use 4 or 5 for "sub"-varsity level.

[Taha Maori]

Thankyou and interesting re: numbers of game officials per match. Can a player be cited for an infringement in a game by anyone else other than the on-field game officials? and can players be disciplined by officials for off the field behaviour? (if so by whom in the American Football governing body?)

[mikesears]

The reason there are four or more officials is NOT because of player control issues. It is more about the rules of the game.

You wrote:
Can a player be cited for an infringement in a game by anyone else other than the on-field game officials?

The method game officials have for controlling players is by administering penalties to his/her team and this is usually motivation enough for a player to quit fouling. If a player's actions are flagrant, he can be disqualified for the remainder of the game by the officials.

But this discussion really depends upon your definition of "citing". If you mean issuing a penalty to his team, the answer is "No, only game officials can issue a yardage penalty against a team for a player's misconduct during the game."

However, if citing a player means disciplining a player, then the answer is yes. A coach can "cite" a player for poor conduct by stepping in and removing a player from the game without any direction or request from a game official (and this does happen).

Also, players can be "cited" by the governing body AFTER a game is completed. They can be suspended (further suspended) by the governing body.


You wrote:
can players be disciplined by officials for off the field behaviour

At most levels of football, there is a governing body that can issue additional penalties to a player who breaks rules or misbehaves when not on the field but those who were paid to administer the game don't have any say for off the field behavior.

The professional body that handles the players is the NFL and the NFLPA (NFL Players Association) and the team owner.

[Edited by mikesears on May 24th, 2004 at 08:11 AM]

[BillyNoMates]

Hello,

Ok, I've just stumbled upon this forum. May I just say something so that all the non-Maori folks on this site don't think that all Maori are all like Taha Maori.

I have played American Football and it is an awesome game with big plays, massive hits(tackles) and a deep strategic focus. The skills of quarterbacks are phenomental especially when you consider that there are 150kg dudes about 2 meters away wanting to rip your head-off. Its about team work, guts and co-ordination. There is everything to admire about the sport and American culture that keeps it alive through media, marketing and education. It is a very big industry and one of the things that keeps people employed, makes them happy and creates a sense of unity. Very powerful! Basketball is also very similar.

Ki-o-Rahi is by no means similar. No does it relate to American culture. Maori sports were lost and detraditionalised through legislation and corruption, not through conquest. That is historically accurate. Also,75% the the Maori population from 1880-1900 were wiped out by epidemic diseases transmitted by rats and sexual abuse (from wherelse but Europe). Anyway, enough, I'm sorry for dragging on, but Maori can't be criticised for being hopeless.

Taha Maori, whilst your argument is historically accurate and intellectually sound, your assumptions and critique are very tangental. The people on this forum have no idea as to the tragic history of New Zealands colonisation. The reality is that traditional life and beliefs are still seen as uncivilised outsie of NZ, although this is changing slowly.

I'm sure if there was a sport that we could all compete in this would create a greater unity and understanding. Basketball is probably the closest we have and whilst NZ can't compete with the likes of Shaq, Johnson, etc we do pretty well in the global competitions. Perhaps there will be a sport that truely represents our country's warrior sportsmen? Such as Ultimate Fighting, thats a pretty universal but isnt very tactical, well that could be argued.

Anyway, I appreciate the chance to read the many posts and learn from you all. May we continue in the honour of sports and please try and keep the degradation of cultures to a minimum, it really does upset people.

Warmest regards,

Kingi Gilbert
Ngati Whakaue, Ngati maniapoto

NationalParty - go back the hole that you crawled out from, I hope my children never encounter someone with the unjust bigotry and hatred you have towards Maori. We are all trying to make a living in this world and we don't need narrowminded fools like you ruining what very little we have of our identity. I'm sure you create enough trouble for yourself anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if you've been punched in the head recently.

[Forksref]

American FB is safer than ever. The number of injuries and 'roughness' doesn't impress me as a means of comparing sports.

I remember many broken teeth prior to mouthguards being required. That's the major safety improvement in my lifetime. (Also, I am so old that I remember hard leather helmets and red penalty flags.)

PS - I played rugby in college and it is rough. We had an expression, "You need leather balls to play rugby." No pads and no blocking. But it's a different game than FB so why bother comparing? Both games are great fun to play. Ex-HS FB players make good rugby players.

[BktBallRef]

Everytime I think this thread is dead.....

[Taha Maori]

What a present for the 2004 Xmas sporting sock.
Steroid & drug use are finally and openly admitted to be rife in American Footy. Putting your head in the sand, pretending there is no prolific use was a folly because now you have to admit it, which ofcourse makes you all look like hypocrites.

Will the US controllers of AF now transform their game into an even newer type of footy so they can still encourage their players to use drugs or will they care for the longterm health of their players and effectively control the massive drug & steroid use???

The US is basically playing against itself on the world sporting stage because they have 99% of their athletes on some type of drug & steroid programmes.

With reference to AF, once the steroid & drug use is controlled, other countries will be able to participate against them fairly - so sports do reflect the society they are in. In the US AF reflects the peoples values systems, finally the US Government has realised this and is in effect saying - DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE BEING IMMORAL? hell no, lets clean up our act, lets have sensible values, let our sports values reflect our societal values.

I was trying to help the deceivers, the ones who perpetuate the coverups of rife drug & steroid use in AF, by inviting them to NZ to saviour the clean, no drug, no steroid, in effect no cheating philosophies of our Ki-o-Rahi sports system. Whether the sport (Ki-o-Rahi) is relatively unknown is irrelevant, it is the values system which is an excellent model for looking after the welfare and health of players.

Now the US can try to organise a proper and true AF world championship instead of having play-offs with just the handful of steroid boosted teams within the US. NO other country in the world can compete with the AF drug & steroid programmes in the States. NOw, with other countries involved, competing with players of 'normal'physiology - NOT drug/steroid enhanced - a true world championship can be attempted. The drug testing technology has finally caught up with the drug cheaters capabilities!

Have a happy Xmas!