Ki-o-Rahi (Maori football)

[FHSUref]

Originally posted by Taha Maori
So why isn't A-football opened up and a genuine world championship held? Why don't the market forces allow this? I just can't see how you can legitimately promote a world championship if only one country is participating.
[Edited by Taha Maori on Mar 27th, 2004 at 09:22 AM]

To quote you from an earlier post (months ago) The reason that the NFL doesn't play the rest of the world is because after one hit it would be "LIGHTS OUT". Then all the New Zealanders would have nothing to do and complain that all the players from your country were knocked out. Then they would go back to playing Yu-gi-oh or whatever game that is that they play!!!

[Dommer1]

Taha Maori,

It seems that no matter what anyone says to you, you have already made up your mind and you "know" all the facts. When I come across a coach like that during a game, I find it best to politely just end the discussion, as there is nothing to be gained from continuing it.

It is obvious that you do not ask questions hoping to learn the real answers to these questions, and your real motive is just to stir things up.

In other words, your attitude makes answering your questions a waste of time.

[Taha Maori]

Kia ora D-1


I am disappointed to hear that you have "switched off".It has been a trait with the conversations on this post that when the discussions gets too revealing with regard to the underlying concepts involved in the culture of A-ball - particularly the core values systems - all kinds of distractions are posted from why America are superpowers, to personal attacks and culture minimisation and derision.

It would be refreshing to have someone post the reasons why so many spectators (consumers) get so hoodwinked by the misleading hype surrounding the game - such as 'World Championship'. I thought this site was for A-ball discussion be it comfortable or not, I am not criticising the game buit merely seeking to findout more about it from the (supposed) experts, the fans within the American culture.

But seeing you have "switched off" D-1 perhaps there are others out there with their light bulbs still on?

[ABoselli]

Being 'generally recognized' by whom? Does that mean that the best A-football team in the 'rest of the world' would not be competitive with the worst in the NFL?

It is generally accepted that the Holocaust happened, despite claims to the opposite. It is generally accepted that the world is not flat. I'm sure you can find pockets of contrary thought, but that in itself doesn't mean each assertion is on equal intellectual footing.

So....to answer your question, it is generally recognized by those who know anything about American football e.g. the American press, the European press who covers NFL Europe, Canadian press etc.

You propose some conspiracy exists in the media to brainwash us to what you feel is some kind of totally unfounded bias - that the NFL is home to the best teams in the world, hence the winner of that league is the world champ.

The second best football played is at the Division I college level, and it is 'generally accepted' that the best college team (national champion) would get blown out by the worst NFL team.

The US, (in basketball) when it sends it's first team (like in the Olympics) doesn't just win, it wins by a large margin. That's the fact. Where do the best players in the world come to play? The NBA.

I'll exchange views with you as long as you wish, but you assert the same thing over and over. I get the impression you've never seen the NFL play on a regular basis. You'd have a different view if you did, I'm sure.

[JMN]

Taha,

If you're point is that you need us to agree that because the NFL plays in the U.S. and because of geography, this doesn't constitute a "World Championship", OK. It's semantics. Let's move on! This banter is a waste of everyone's time.

And regarding the fans being "hoodwinked" by this contention that they are watching the World Championships, these are not stupid people. They believe that they are watching the best players and teams in the world. They don't give a flip if teams from New Zealand or Taiwan are not included. It doesn't invalidate the achievement of the championship teams.

Your assertion that this is a big "con" because it's called a world championship is irrelevant and inaccurate. Take away the "championship" moniker and it would still draw the audience and attention that it does today. In short, nothing would change, other than you would feel better.

[Taha Maori]

Kia ora JMN

if as you say, the sport of American Football would still draw the same audience if the deception (is this an American euphamism for 'hype?)of 'world championship' was not used - then why is it used at all then?

There are people who view this site who would be interested to know if you have a vested interest in continuing this deception of the American people - JMN are you involved in deceiving the American public?, you seem to get very defensive when aspects of this are mentioned!

We all know that most other countries which play A-ball have made it illegal to pump athletes full of drugs and steriods and that until America rids this aspect from its game - no other country can hope to compete equally.

JMN it seems like you are 'taking people for a ride' or that you are being 'taken for a ride' - perhaps you could come clean????

It seems like many of your politicians are now. Remember how we discussed the American Football culture reflecting the society it is in? The footballing public have/are being deceived just like the American public have been over aspects of the Iraqi War (eg remember the line on 'Weopons of Mass Destruction' - see the similarities NOW JMN?)

New Zealanders would never be so gullible, or to use your word, STUPID, our traditional game of Ki-o-Rahi is based on intelligence, from the players and spectators...the players always make up their own minds on the sportsfield..not through an earpiece.

JMN we humbly wait for your apology to the American people.

Kind regards

Taha

[mikesears]

JMN,

Seems like T. M. is just trolling for an argument. I wouldn't bother explaining anything.

It seems like he is very close to busting our dirty little secret of how we gain market share by calling something a world championship when it is actually a national championship. Oops, did I just let the cat out of the bag? Sorry ....

[Taha Maori]

Kia ora mikesears'

Fantastic, honesty! So this is a market strategy by the promoters of American Football. Just as Bush used a 'market strategy' to sell going to war against Iraqi based on getting those world threatening 'Weopons of Mass Destruction'!

In NZ we all wore wry smiles when we heard Bush's rhetoric about attacking the terroist Iraqis...same 'market strategy' we heard against the Afghans...Africans...Vietnamese...yet the American public were still duped.The analogy of A-ball and A-society as mirror images can be seen clearly in this light.

Is there anyway that the American public can get itself out of propping up the arms industry? In NZ the figure we're hearing is that $2,000,000 A MINUTE is spent by Americans on 'arms'.Ofcourse the 'marketers' continually have to create situations to perpetuate the use of arms...and poor American taxpayers are being stressed to the max with the market strategy whereby they're continually bombarded with the fear of needing to contain world outbreaks by terroists - really they should be looking at their own industrialists and their terroist actions.

I digress...Honest mikesears...can you tell us of any other 'market strategies' that the promoters of American Football use? we have also heard that the players have their heights and weights 'boosted' considerably to impress the public?

regards as always

Taha

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Taha Maori
with an edit by JN


Fantastic, ! So this strategy by Bush
threatening Mass Destruction In NZ
we all wore wry smiles when we heard

attacking terroist Iraqis against the Afghans...Africans...Vietnamese...
yet the American public were clearly
the public in this light.

get out the arms In NZ
we're hearing that A MINUTE
Americans 'arms' Of course
perpetuate poor Americans

to the max with the continually bombarded
with the fear of looking at their own
industrialists and their actions
digress can you tell

us as always of other use
we have also heard
that the players 'boosted' the public
and Taha's full of poo

[mikesears]

To everyone.

I apologize for responding and keeping this thread going. I should have kept my sarcasm to myself and let this thread die a long overdue death.

I promise to not post anything else to this thread and hopefully this foolishness will eventually go away.

[ABoselli]

New Zealanders would never be so gullible, or to use your word, STUPID, our traditional game of Ki-o-Rahi is based on intelligence, from the players and spectators...the players always make up their own minds on the sportsfield..not through an earpiece.

That Joe Montana sure was a dunce, wasn't he?

And the guile, wisdom and intelligence of New Zealanders has netted them.....umm, give me a minute, I'll think of something....sorry, let me Google it, maybe they can turn up something....sorry, still nothin unless you count a few middle of the pack golfers on the PGA Tour.


Pretty country, though. I guess that counts for something. Wish we had that here. Oh wait - we do.

[JMN]

Taha,

This is the last time that I will respond to you.

Obviously your game is to incite negative debate by creating arguments and then infusing them with how gullible and weak the American public is. You cover the landscape from American Football (is there really any other!) to WMD and Iraq. You are sure not to leave out the mass deception going on in the NFL, steriods in other sports, etc.

Keep in mind, as you sit back and criticize everything from American football to our policy in Iraq and accuse me of misleading the American public (?), U.S. citizens are strong, resolute, and united. You see, even when we disagree, we are united.

I don't think that the NFL is evil in their attempts to "sell" their product. I don't agree with a lot of what the NFL does to sell their entertainment (sportsmanship for one), but the fact remains that the best American-style football in the world is played by NFL teams. If you don't agree, suit up and come on over. A number of us officials would even work your game for free .

Not everyone in the U.S. is as smart as you, so at times we may be deceived by this silly game of football. I don't expect you to understand this, so I'm finished responding to you.

I believe that we should use this board to "build up" one another to be better 'AMERICAN' football officials, not engage in political discussions or chase red herrings about the evilness of capitalism in the NFL. So, unless you plan to put on the stripes and join us soon, good bye and God bless.

[Taha Maori]

Kia ora koutou,
boys, boys, boys...nothing I have said should be interpreted as 'negative' unless ofcourse you are being defensive... self-reflection is a powerful tool and going along with the status quo, just because something has always been, is in the words of your own 'deception unraveller' - David Young (Uni of Cal), a "calculated deception" based on "idealism, elitism and naivity".

Personally I like A-ball...and rugby...and ki-o-rahi...
but that doesn't mean I should not critically evaluate their existence and function - I believe nothing in society happens in isolation - hence I believe sports cultures reflect the society they inhabit.

I hope the type of collusion you boys display on this site does not get taken onto the football field, 'unity of purpose', has been the downfall of many corrupt officials who contrive results of football matches.

You boys have contributed little in the way to the critique of American Football - if you re-read your meagre contributions you will see how defensive and negative you all have been...I expected more from citizens of the most 'unoppressed' nation in the world...perhaps 'freedom of speech' has been knocked out of you by peer pressure?

Good luck to the teams you officiate, they will certainly need it!

[ABoselli]

Kia ora koutou,
boys, boys, boys...nothing I have said should be interpreted as 'negative' unless ofcourse you are being defensive... self-reflection is a powerful tool and going along with the status quo, just because something has always been, is in the words of your own 'deception unraveller' - David Young (Uni of Cal), a "calculated deception" based on "idealism, elitism and naivity".

Are you ever going to address any of our responses or are you just going to cluck your tongue in a falsely self satisfied sneer. You seem to think that because we are united in our opposition to your 'theories' that it is collusion, when it fact it maybe we have a little more insight into this matter than you, hence we reach basically the same conclusion. If we were all to agree that the earth is round, would the Flat Earth Society claim collusion?

Just because we don't accept your ill-thought out premises or swallow your meandering logic around the bend, that doesn't mean we aren't engaging you in this discussion. Your original premise that the Super Bowl winner should not be celebrated as the world champion is false and we have given examples as to why. So you're wrong on that. That we are under some svengali like spell of the media and hence perpetuate your first wrong premise is also without merit. You're failure to grasp either of these is evidence of your close-mindedness on the subject - not ours.

I propose all of your arguments, premises, examples, logic and conclusions are either outrightly false or so completely free of reason that they belong in the 'rubbish heap' as I think you call it. It's all fun and games to take shots at the '800 pound gorilla' because he is, after all, the big guy and who doesn't want to take shots at the big guy. In spite of all your ramblings, thats all it boils down to - a inferiority complex induced swipe at American football and, by extension, us.

Have fun with your little game over there in New Zealand. With people like you backing it, it should become real big right around never.

[Mike Simonds]

Dear AB,

God bless America!