The death of knickers (I hope)

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

In reality, most WHs are the crew chiefs, I would guess. I know the occasional crew up here where another member is the listed crew chief, but I'm guessing it's less than 1-in-10.

Our assn assigns crews for the season. Yet we are small enough that everyone knows the quirks of each of the WHs. We have one that refuses to wear jackets (long sleeves are ok). We have one that refuses to wear shorts. And we have some as others describe (whatever the guys want--and everyone owns--we are good). But in all case, the WH has the ultimate say.

In reality, what people wear comes down to what the assn mandates. And the assn only mandates nickers, short sleeves, and long sleeves (along with socks, shoes, hats etc). Heck, we don't even have blue bean bags, despite all the snow, since the board (state and local) can't agree on that. (And we all know that blue bean bags are only a problem in Boise, so I don't know why there is such opposition.)

[Texas Aggie]

We do need a lighter weight version of the pants. I'm not one to buy into the myth that dark colors are automatically hotter than lighter ones (dark colors absorb more LIGHT, not necessarily more HEAT; the material makes 99% of the difference), however the thick material Honigs black pants that I have would be pretty hot in August -- at least hotter than similar pants with a lighter weight material. Lighter weight white knickers usually meant the black stripes of the shirt showed, but with black pants, that's no longer a problem.

I HATE knickers. I don't think they look bad per se, but I hate wearing them. I also think this would steer most of us in the south toward shorts in early season subvarsity games.

Honigs already has the 2" shirts on their site, and you can have the shirt made with a letter already on the back -- no placard, its part of the shirt. How long before 2" comes to HS?

[Welpe]

Word on the street is that the Gerry Davis and Cliff Keen black pants are a lighter material than the Honigs. I wouldn't be surprised if Honigs is also developing a lighter weight version.

Aggie, how long before you think TASO will adopt the 2" stripes and black pants?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Word on the street is that the Gerry Davis and Cliff Keen black pants are a lighter material than the Honigs.

The Davis pants are considerably lighter. I could wear those in any weather -- they are truly like baseball or basketball pants.

Personally, I prefer them in cold weather, too. I'd rather put cold gear on under the pants then have the pants themselves be hot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The Davis pants are considerably lighter. I could wear those in any weather -- they are truly like baseball or basketball pants.

Personally, I prefer them in cold weather, too. I'd rather put cold gear on under the pants then have the pants themselves be hot.

The Honigs pants are not any more heavy than the pants you wear during the baseball season and we certainly umpire is hotter weather at times than we ever will in most football games in this part of the country. Maybe the first week on an afternoon, but I do not work many football games in near 100 degree weather. That being said this is a college issue right now. I am not sure the high school associations are just going to drop knickers right now.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Honigs pants are not any more heavy than the pants you wear during the baseball season and we certainly umpire is hotter weather at times than we ever will in most football games in this part of the country. Maybe the first week on an afternoon, but I do not work many football games in near 100 degree weather. That being said this is a college issue right now. I am not sure the high school associations are just going to drop knickers right now.

Peace

I agree, but this will travel downhill in the next few years. We're already barely wearing the knickers now. We've gone to shorts for subvarsity games in warm weather and I'm contemplating wearing them for varsity games as it's allowed here.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The Davis pants are considerably lighter. I could wear those in any weather -- they are truly like baseball or basketball pants.

Personally, I prefer them in cold weather, too. I'd rather put cold gear on under the pants then have the pants themselves be hot.

Agreed. layering is best. The Smitty slacks we purchased are no heavier than the Honigs basketball slacks I were.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I thought white shorts were lacrosse. Isn't football all black shorts -- where they are worn?

No. In NC, we have the option of black or white shorts in subvarsity. In fact, black shorts were only allowed as an option two years ago.

[Texas Aggie]

could never imagine acting as that much of a dictator in areas such as this

I'm a benevolent dictator. I give them a vote and then overrule them accordingly!

Seriously, I do get input, but my guys expect me to lead, and I do just that. I have the reputation of going short sleeve on any game not played at the North Pole or in weather warmer than 0 deg. F! Sort of a long running joke, though not entirely undeserved.

Aggie, how long before you think TASO will adopt the 2" stripes and black pants?

Funny because I sent my chapter's VP this question just tonight. My guess is that next year, we'll be able to wear the pants whenever we want. Officially, we can wear them with long sleeves, but I think that will change. It won't be a mandate, but an option. As far as the 2", maybe 2 years. They look MUCH better with the black pants.

The other thing is that the pants will make the shorts a little more acceptable for subvarsity wear. The real problem with the shorts isn't because shorts look bad, but because too many guys wear the overfitted basketball shorts. If we can get them semi-uniform, you might even see them on Friday nights in early season.

[HLin NC]

How long before 2" comes to HS?

You guys in Texas might since you use NCAA rules but I've heard one of the things in the movement is to differentiate each level- the NFL has their thing (Can't wait to see what Nike designs them in 2012), college will migrate to the 2" stripe (Honig's has to get rid of all that backstock somehow) and us peons down at the HS level will keep what we have- 1".

I imagine college will also have a pant stripe somewhere between what the NFL has (4") and HS.

Can't remember where I heard or read all this but it was sometime last fall or late summer.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Can't remember where I heard or read all this but it was sometime last fall or late summer.

I've long been impressed by the fashion industry and their ability to generate continual revenue by simply declaring that something "different" was better than what everyone already had. Not selling enough skirts, raise (or lower) the hem line several inches and tell everyone who has a closet full of the old hem line, that anything NOT with the new hem line is "out of style".

It's always worked with women, and has been successful with young males, who spend more on cologne, bath wash, hair gel in a month than their fathers did in a decade. I can remember when a pair of canvass Keds enabled people to play basketball, jog, walk, climb, play and be comfortable all in the same pair of sneakers.

Soon we'll be able to replace all our white knickers with black pants with white stripes. Of course changing the width of the stripes will enable the fashion gurus to dictate changing everyone's inventory periodically. For a while we'll have different fabrics for different weather conditions, until eventually the idea of winter undergarments comes full circle. Strange that these new miracle fibers (stain resistant, water proof, wind resistance, etc.) only presently come in black?

Maybe some day they figure out how to make them in white, and maybe even different shapes, like knickers (to more clearly differentiate officials from the other people on the playing field). These fashion people may be a lot of things, but they absolutely aren't dumb. I guess the marketplace has changed, used to be officials didn't spend a lot of time worrying about how fashionable they might have looked. I wonder if anybody, other than other officials, pays any attention to the width of the stripes or the color of the pants (or knickers). No matter, other officials are the only ones the fashion industry has to convince.

[BIG UMP]

Oh please, lets not go back to black shorts. I do like the black pants and my R and I agreed that we were going to wear them all year next year irregardless of any decisions. But please no shorts.

[Rich]

My crewmates refused to wear white shorts, but they've embraced black ones. Go figure.

[Texas Aggie]

I thought white shorts were lacrosse. Isn't football all black shorts -- where they are worn?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I thought white shorts were lacrosse. Isn't football all black shorts -- where they are worn?

Ohio switched to black shorts optional just last season. 2011 will have black shorts only, and (still) only for subvarsity.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I thought white shorts were lacrosse. Isn't football all black shorts -- where they are worn?

It's regional. When I lived in the south, it was black. Here, it was white. Last year the rule interpreters said black was OK and then the state office came around a month later with a bulletin that said THEY'D never said that. When I emailed the interpreter about this, he never returned my email. Since we spent money on the black shorts on the word of a rep of the state, we continued wearing them, as did everyone else I know.