Sugar Bowl Safety

[Coach Jinx]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The calling official was the one at the top of the screen. The ball was facing him and he would have been the best person to make the call. So what the other official was doing is really not relevant for many purposes.

Peace

well unlike the R, both wings have forward progress & if you have one sprinting in with forward progress it at the worst looks bad if u move it back or to a safety


your quick to say this or that but it is relevant if one wing has it, just because he was closer doesnt mean he was right

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The calling official was the one at the top of the screen. The ball was facing him and he would have been the best person to make the call. So what the other official was doing is really not relevant for many purposes.

Peace

It is very relevant if he was signalling the ball dead because of forward progress prior to the runner getting tackled. If that's the case, it's at least an inadvertent signal. He ruled forward progress based on his signal so he should have at least been a part of the conversation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Jinx

well unlike the R, both wings have forward progress & if you have one sprinting in with forward progress it at the worst looks bad if u move it back or to a safety


your quick to say this or that but it is relevant if one wing has it, just because he was closer doesnt mean he was right

Originally Posted by bisonlj

It is very relevant if he was signalling the ball dead because of forward progress prior to the runner getting tackled. If that's the case, it's at least an inadvertent signal. He ruled forward progress based on his signal so he should have at least been a part of the conversation.

I do not know what you guys do or what your crew does, but where I work we do not confer on things like this if one official has made a ruling. Not with a safety or not with a TD. If someone has a spot they go with that spot. We do not have to confer to make a decision. Just because some guy on the other end of the field has an opinion does not mean he should be involved in much of anything. If this was a TD situation, and the ball is run to the side of one of the wings I do not know much conversation that would be had if the wing ruled a TD or not. But hey, I am sure some people have to confer about everything.

Peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And one thing non-football officials need to understand, the whistle means little or nothing to this play.

It would have meant everything if the whistle had blown when forward progress was stopped.

peace

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Andy

I agree that the two of them getting together to discuss what they saw was excellent and looked good as officials.

My question, since I am not a football official, is what would happen if the two of them had disagreed? Since there was no whistle to stop the play, what if the Wing came in and said that he had forward progress stopped at the 2, and the Referee said, no, I've got a safety? Do you just discuss it and come to a decision? It seems like this would happen more often in football with two or more officials looking at the same play from different angles.

Part of the rule includes this statement: " When in question, forward progress is stopped." The wing is the primary official for ruling forward progress on this play.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Part of the rule includes this statement: " When in question, forward progress is stopped."

But the question is not merely whether his forward progress was stopped, rather whether he was so held that his forward progress was stopped. So the key word in determination is "held".

[parepat]

I was taught that nothing good happens in those pile ups when the runner is not moving forward. There will be a fumble, fight etc. Shut it down.

Question, if the ball had been stripped while being pushed back would you have allowed it.

I wouldn't and I'd bet these guys wouldn't have either. I think this wing gave up his spot and was then screwed. Defensible call, but not a good one in my opinion.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

But the question is not merely whether his forward progress was stopped, rather whether he was so held that his forward progress was stopped. So the key word in determination is "held".

Well I would rule if the defender has his arms wrapped around him and has driven him back 4 yds, he was pretty well held.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

What struck me as most significant about this play, was that the Referee and Wing official, immediately got together to confirm what each had seen and only then was a decision made and a non-hesitant signal given.

Apparently, both agreed that the play was still alive when the ball was fumbled. As both seemed to be in proper position to make a call (from opposite directions) their confirming each other's perspective seems like excellent and appropriate mechanics.

What am I missing? What fumble?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by waltjp

What am I missing? What fumble?

You don't see a fumble? What play are you watching?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You don't see a fumble? What play are you watching?

After reading some of these replies I wonder if I was watching the right game.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by waltjp

After reading some of these replies I wonder if I was watching the right game.

Perhaps you were actually watching the Tidy Bowl?