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-   -   Just after the snap (https://forum.officiating.com/football/59753-just-after-snap.html)

Durham Tue Nov 16, 2010 08:37pm
Just after the snap
 
Can a DLman swipe the ball after the center starts the snap and force a fumble? Is it legal in Fed? Look for support either way.

Cobra Tue Nov 16, 2010 09:00pm
Yes, it is legal but it would be extremely hard for it to occur. If it happened it would probably be encroachment on the defense or a snap infraction.

MRH Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:16pm
It is NOT legal in NFHS. Either a snap infraction has occured or it is encroachment.

Some will consider UC if it is encroachment and it happens more than once!

With_Two_Flakes Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:34pm
No idea what would be the Fed equivalent reference, but for NCAA, Rule 2-23-1-f states
Quote:
If the ball is touched by Team B during a legal snap, the ball remains dead and Team B is penalised.
If the ball is touched by Team B during an illegal snap, the ball remains dead and Team A is penalised.

Durham Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:54pm
Thanks. Anyone know a fed ruling?

BktBallRef Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham (Post 701448)
Thanks. Anyone know a fed ruling?
There is no NFHS ruling or rule against such as the NCAA has. If a defender can pull it off without encroaching, it would be legal, if the snap was legal.

Durham Wed Nov 17, 2010 01:21am
Thank you. I had two friends, they coached against each other in the first round of HS playoffs and one kid pulled it off twice. Once the defense scooped and scored. I told them I would lol into it. Thanks again.

Cobra Wed Nov 17, 2010 01:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRH (Post 701438)
It is NOT legal in NFHS. Either a snap infraction has occured or it is encroachment.
No...it could happen though it is not likely.

HLin NC Wed Nov 17, 2010 08:13am
Aw jeez, not this again.:eek:

Durham Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:41am
I did not intend to begin a philosophical debate on the issue, I just could not find a rules reference either way. I know how things work on the field, but I was just looking for something in Fed Speak.

JasonTX Wed Nov 17, 2010 02:19pm
I only use NCAA rules and for us it's clear that it's illegal. I am curious with the Fed rules if you guys are saying is legal in Fed rules. At what point can a team B player enter the neutral zone? I would think that it would be the same as NCAA where they cannot enter the neutral zone until after the snap. If the ball has not yet left the snappers hands, then the snap is still in progress so any player who swipes at the ball is in the neutral zone. Is that not correct for Fed as well?

Canned Heat Wed Nov 17, 2010 02:40pm
I had 2 teams this year try it during the last few kneel downs in 2 contests....told the nose tackle that was attaempting it that if he broke the plain with his hand he'd get pinched for the encroachment. Put an end to it in both cases....FYI these were JV and FR games.

Cobra Wed Nov 17, 2010 05:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTX (Post 701613)
I only use NCAA rules and for us it's clear that it's illegal. I am curious with the Fed rules if you guys are saying is legal in Fed rules. At what point can a team B player enter the neutral zone? I would think that it would be the same as NCAA where they cannot enter the neutral zone until after the snap. If the ball has not yet left the snappers hands, then the snap is still in progress so any player who swipes at the ball is not in the neutral zone. Is that not correct for Fed as well?
B can enter the neutral zone at the snap. The snap starts when the ball is first moved other than an adjustment. So a B player could hit the ball during the snap but he would have to be extremely fast to do so. Most likely he would have to guess the snap count and not react off seeing the ball move.

Robert Goodman Wed Nov 17, 2010 08:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonTX (Post 701613)
I only use NCAA rules and for us it's clear that it's illegal. I am curious with the Fed rules if you guys are saying is legal in Fed rules. At what point can a team B player enter the neutral zone? I would think that it would be the same as NCAA where they cannot enter the neutral zone until after the snap. If the ball has not yet left the snappers hands, then the snap is still in progress so any player who swipes at the ball is in the neutral zone. Is that not correct for Fed as well?
Are you saying that in NCAA players can't enter the NZ until the ball has left the snapper's hands? First I've heard of that in any football anywhere, any time!

JasonTX Wed Nov 17, 2010 09:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 701659)
Are you saying that in NCAA players can't enter the NZ until the ball has left the snapper's hands? First I've heard of that in any football anywhere, any time!
Poor choice in words on my part. Hitting the ball in NCAA before it leaves the snappers hands is offside. You are correct that when the snap begins a player may enter the NZ, but not slap the ball while it's in the process of being snapped.


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